EPD Followers What's Your Priorities

[Bovine breeder]

If I'm going to a sale to buy a bull for use on my commercial cows, the first thing I'll do is get the sale book and get an idea of what I like and what i want to look at before I go to the sale so that I'm not overwhelmed. I do that solely based off epds and pictures in the catalog. Pedigree only matters to me so I can prevent inbreeding something. Yes there are certain bulls and big time breeders I like, but ultimately I chose who I think is right for the job, regardless of prefix. Once at the sale I use phenotype to separate the bulls high on my list from low. Then as the sale happens, price determines which one I buy. The epds I find most important are HPG, WW, then CED, milk, doc, $W, $en, etc

 

[NEFarmwife]

I have no input, just wanted to say this is an interesting thread. I'm humored by how different my husband and his father are when it comes to selecting semen.

Myself? I've learned a LOT about EPD's and their thoughts (even yours) about them and I have certainly not been around cattle all my life, so I'm a "love at first site", who couldn't tell you what a "perfect" bull or cow is suppose to look like. Which is why I don't make the decisions. Something's got to be said for a cow that catches your eye though, right? My husband gets texts from me when I'm out with them and I say "look at their butts! It's the Kardashians!"

 

[Bright Raven]

I have no input, just wanted to say this is an interesting thread. I'm humored by how different my husband and his father are when it comes to selecting semen.

Myself? I've learned a LOT about EPD's and their thoughts (even yours) about them and I have certainly not been around cattle all my life, so I'm a "love at first site", who couldn't tell you what a "perfect" bull or cow is suppose to look like. Which is why I don't make the decisions. Something's got to be said for a cow that catches your eye though, right? My husband gets texts from me when I'm out with them and I say "look at their butts! It's the Kardashians!

I have a cow that is registered under the name "Kim Kardashian". Her sire is the Simmental bull known by the nickname "Fat Butt". And she has the big butt that was expected.

 

[NEFarmwife]

I have no input, just wanted to say this is an interesting thread. I'm humored by how different my husband and his father are when it comes to selecting semen.

Myself? I've learned a LOT about EPD's and their thoughts (even yours) about them and I have certainly not been around cattle all my life, so I'm a "love at first site", who couldn't tell you what a "perfect" bull or cow is suppose to look like. Which is why I don't make the decisions. Something's got to be said for a cow that catches your eye though, right? My husband gets texts from me when I'm out with them and I say "look at their butts! It's the Kardashians!

I have a cow that is registered under the name "Kim Kardashian". Her sire is the Simmental bull known by the nickname "Fat Butt". And she has the big butt that was expected.

That is too funny! I've got to see a pic.

 

[Bright Raven]

I have no input, just wanted to say this is an interesting thread. I'm humored by how different my husband and his father are when it comes to selecting semen.

Myself? I've learned a LOT about EPD's and their thoughts (even yours) about them and I have certainly not been around cattle all my life, so I'm a "love at first site", who couldn't tell you what a "perfect" bull or cow is suppose to look like. Which is why I don't make the decisions. Something's got to be said for a cow that catches your eye though, right? My husband gets texts from me when I'm out with them and I say "look at their butts! It's the Kardashians!

I have a cow that is registered under the name "Kim Kardashian". Her sire is the Simmental bull known by the nickname "Fat Butt". And she has the big butt that was expected.

That is too funny! I've got to see a pic.

 

[Chocolate Cow]

Sorry Jake. I didn't mean to make my thoughts look like they were directed at you specifically. My question was a generalization. Dun, yes. Terminal bull selection would prevent keeping daughters but possibly not a son. Anyway, it's just something that's rattled around in my head while spraying musk thistle or whatever. Thanks for pointing that out.
So, if you use terminal sires, where do 'you' get your female replacements? 'you' being a generic term. not anyone specifically.

 

[Allenw]

Thanks for the responses I was checking to see what every one thought and see if I missed the bus some where.

I'm having to watch my brother degrade Dad's cow herd, a good 75+ years work between Dad and Granddad in them. He can't buy a bull with out EPD's, I think the bulls are all half brothers out of the same sire now. the last one he brought home my son and I both thought it was a heifer from a bit of a distance.

I have a hand full of Dad's cows but unfortunately I've been having to use one of their old bulls to breed them. I am at the point I have to get enough money together and buy my own bull. I got my feet knocked out from under me a year and a half ago when I had to stop and take care of some health problems. I'm still trying to get my head back above water maybe by next spring i can make things work out.

 

[NEFarmwife]

Thanks for the responses I was checking to see what every one thought and see if I missed the bus some where.

I'm having to watch my brother degrade Dad's cow herd, a good 75+ years work between Dad and Granddad in them. He can't buy a bull with out EPD's, I think the bulls are all half brothers out of the same sire now. the last one he brought home my son and I both thought it was a heifer from a bit of a distance.

I have a hand full of Dad's cows but unfortunately I've been having to use one of their old bulls to breed them. I am at the point I have to get enough money together and buy my own bull. I got my feet knocked out from under me a year and a half ago when I had to stop and take care of some health problems. I'm still trying to get my head back above water maybe by next spring i can make things work out.

I don't know enough about it but someone we spoke with the other day, says he leases bulls for his herd. Not something we'd do, as we AI most everything and run our own for cleanup but if it pencils out, might be a good option for you? I didn't inquire about cost or the liability.

 

[Allenw]

Thanks for the responses I was checking to see what every one thought and see if I missed the bus some where.

I'm having to watch my brother degrade Dad's cow herd, a good 75+ years work between Dad and Granddad in them. He can't buy a bull with out EPD's, I think the bulls are all half brothers out of the same sire now. the last one he brought home my son and I both thought it was a heifer from a bit of a distance.

I have a hand full of Dad's cows but unfortunately I've been having to use one of their old bulls to breed them. I am at the point I have to get enough money together and buy my own bull. I got my feet knocked out from under me a year and a half ago when I had to stop and take care of some health problems. I'm still trying to get my head back above water maybe by next spring i can make things work out.

I don't know enough about it but someone we spoke with the other day, says he leases bulls for his herd. Not something we'd do, as we AI most everything and run our own for cleanup but if it pencils out, might be a good option for you? I didn't inquire about cost or the liability.

It's a thought and I appreciate the idea. I've thought about finding some one to AI part of them but I'd have to get something set up to do it. I've got a couple of friends that could do it but they're both busy and can be a bit scattered. one in their work schedule which is as unpredictable as mine, and the other one is well blonde and something is always going wrong around her.

 

[Son of Butch]

It's a hard & fast rule for me that there will be no GAR in the pedigree.

Care to explain why?

 

[Chocolate Cow]

A lot of reasons. I live too close. I don't like their type of cattle. They're harder doing cattle. Genetics geared for the feedlot. I'm focused on more maternal lines. I think you can get a good calf with quality milk-not quantity milk. 1680 was a mess and locally, people knew there was a big problem. GAR denied every having a defective calf. A friend worked for a ranch that used their genetics exclusively and they were having curly calves years before the problem became public.
You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything. It's just something I take a stand on. I'm probably one of the few who avoids their genetics.

 

[Midtenn]

A lot of reasons. I live too close. I don't like their type of cattle. They're harder doing cattle. Genetics geared for the feedlot. I'm focused on more maternal lines. I think you can get a good calf with quality milk-not quantity milk. 1680 was a mess and locally, people knew there was a big problem. GAR denied every having a defective calf. A friend worked for a ranch that used their genetics exclusively and they were having curly calves years before the problem became public.
You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything. It's just something I take a stand on. I'm probably one of the few who avoids their genetics.[/quot

It seems most of the super carcass cattle are really fine boned, which usually = harder doing and other issues contrary to a hassle free herd. Am I seeing that right?

 

[greatgerts]

Thanks for the responses I was checking to see what every one thought and see if I missed the bus some where.

I'm having to watch my brother degrade Dad's cow herd, a good 75+ years work between Dad and Granddad in them. He can't buy a bull with out EPD's, I think the bulls are all half brothers out of the same sire now. the last one he brought home my son and I both thought it was a heifer from a bit of a distance.

I have a hand full of Dad's cows but unfortunately I've been having to use one of their old bulls to breed them. I am at the point I have to get enough money together and buy my own bull. I got my feet knocked out from under me a year and a half ago when I had to stop and take care of some health problems. I'm still trying to get my head back above water maybe by next spring i can make things work out.

I don't know enough about it but someone we spoke with the other day, says he leases bulls for his herd. Not something we'd do, as we AI most everything and run our own for cleanup but if it pencils out, might be a good option for you? I didn't inquire about cost or the liability.

It's a thought and I appreciate the idea. I've thought about finding some one to AI part of them but I'd have to get something set up to do it. I've got a couple of friends that could do it but they're both busy and can be a bit scattered. one in their work schedule which is as unpredictable as mine, and the other one is well blonde and something is always going wrong around her.

Where are you located? If you aren't too far, we might be able to help some with the lease part.

 

[Allenw]

A lot of reasons. I live too close. I don't like their type of cattle. They're harder doing cattle. Genetics geared for the feedlot. I'm focused on more maternal lines. I think you can get a good calf with quality milk-not quantity milk. 1680 was a mess and locally, people knew there was a big problem. GAR denied every having a defective calf. A friend worked for a ranch that used their genetics exclusively and they were having curly calves years before the problem became public.
You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything. It's just something I take a stand on. I'm probably one of the few who avoids their genetics.

I've heard that before, not seeing their name dropped so much any more. The new kids on the block down to Yukon are getting theirs dropped more and more here.

 

[Allenw]

Where are you located? If you aren't too far, we might be able to help some with the lease part.

NW Oklahoma, a bit far from you depending on where in Mo. you are. Thanks for the offer.

These are straight bred Hereford cows, they had some registered cattle in the 50's and 60's, but some of these could go back to great granddads red cattle. It would be a shame to start crossing them now, although that would be the easy route.

Dad had a breeder deliver a bull a number of years ago and tour the cow herd his, comment was he needed to go home and buy some better cows. Some where something has been lost, it seems like it really hit after the older cows were sold during the drought. The cow herd lost the uniformity and style it had.

Sorry, I shouldn't be grumping about something I have no control over but sometimes it helps to let some of it go.

 

[MRRherefords]

I would say if your buying an Angus bull you better start by looking at his feet.

I think that is something that can honestly be said about all breeds. Feet are extremely important in animals. Many people have told me, "When buying a cow your eyes should first go to the ground."

 

[kd4au]

I would say if your buying an Angus bull you better start by looking at his feet.

I think that is something that can honestly be said about all breeds. Feet are extremely important in animals. Many people have told me, "When buying a cow your eyes should first go to the ground."

I never had any feet problems until I started using Angus bulls. Sure there can be feet issues with any breed, but IMO the Angus breeders have let way to many bulls with bad feet enter the bloodlines and they know it and I've seen more breeders talking about the problem.

 

[MRRherefords]

I would say if your buying an Angus bull you better start by looking at his feet.

I think that is something that can honestly be said about all breeds. Feet are extremely important in animals. Many people have told me, "When buying a cow your eyes should first go to the ground."

I never had any feet problems until I started using Angus bulls. Sure there can be feet issues with any breed, but IMO the Angus breeders have let way to many bulls with bad feet enter the bloodlines and they know it and I've seen more breeders talking about the problem.

I agree. Never had any feet issues with my Herefords.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

SPH said it right about EPD's being just ONE of the tools we should be using. For me, first is phenotype. I don't expect an ugly bull to produce what I am looking for. Then I try to see offspring to see if he passes on the traits I'm interested in - especially STRUCTURE. This usually means calling other breeders that get around the country and SEE the offspring walking. Pictures help, but you really can't see the structure properly. Then if everything else pans out, I check out the EPD's. I print off a sheet of my cows with pedigree & EPD's. Then the matching begins, picturing in my mind what the cow LOOKS like and what I need to change on her to give me the "perfect" calf.
We all know there is NO perfect calf. But, that is what I try to create by mating.
Edit: The "perfect" calf for me (or any breeder) may be totally different than the perfect calf in someone else's mind.

 

[cow pollinater]

I don't get to hung up on most of them. I watch reliability closely so I know what the margin of error is. On most things I really don't spend to much time worrying about it if I like what I see. Very few people are good enough managers to really see a huge difference between high end epds and middle of the road and the people that aren't are setting themselves up for a train wreck when they jump on the more is better band wagon. I can get more out of a middle of the road calf with decent management than I can a calf that needs more feed than I'm going to offer.
Killers for me are CEM and poor heifer fertility, especially if they have any kind of reliability to them. I watch stayability closely in breeds that offer it.
Breed plays a role as well. The more popular breeds tend to have more reliable epds. Smaller breeds would be just as well served to crumple them up and toss them and go by actuals as there just isn't enough of a sample size to make them worthwhile. Keep in mind they are just genetic averages and if it were that simple there would be no need for any measure in the first place as we could just assume that what we see is what we get. Ask any parent with more than one kid by the same spouse and they'll tell you that the same mating can produce different results.