Embryo Transfer- Care of the Donor

[toughntender]

Hi everyone,

I am planning on doing a lot of embryo transfers in the very near future. I have done some in the past and had some fairly mixed results. The same cows were flushed a few different times and had very different outcomes. The best I could get was 8 implantable embryos. I have talked to some people and they are averaging well over 12. Sometimes they get up to 20. In my case I was feeding free choice hay, free choice McNess breeder mineral and 10 lbs of corn silage for extra energy. I thought it would help because it was cooler out. Was I over feeding my donors? What I want to know is how everyone feeds/ cares for their donor cows? Also what type of results are people having. Does the time of year make a difference? Thank you so much for your help.

 

[Till-Hill]

Buddy mine force feeds mineral mixed in with grain and also gives multimin 90 30 days before breeding and does great.

 

[pdfangus]

i have only done it once with two good cows....
but I gave em some grain and added a few supplements but I don't recall what all now....and I did this from calving until flush....

If I was going to spend 2 grand flusing them I was not going to skimp on the feed.

 

[WalnutCrest]

I just had this conversation with two separate guys in the last 24 hours. They've been doing this for 30 years our so... and they feed good grass hay only with vitamin injection.

 

[gizmom]

We have been flushing for a number of years, our donor cows are on the same mineral program as the rest of the herd. Since the donors are penned to make our lives a little easier due to the protocol they do get additional nutrition. The embryologist usually uses what I would describe as a base line protocol the first time they flush, then if they flush that cow again they might adjust the dosage based on the last flush results. We have one cow that has been flushed five times no matter how you adjust you get 6 to 8 good eggs each flush but keep in mind this cow has never been kept open to flush she has been flushed five times and never missed a regular calving season. Another cow we purchased at 12 years old we kept open after she calved where we could flush her a number of times first flush was 8 eggs 2nd 11 eggs 3rd 12 eggs. Another old cow that I wanted to flush we flushed twice once for 11 eggs the 2nd time 26 so I think a lot has to do with the cow. One thing we have seen that will have a bad effect on conception is if you have a big change in weather a real cold snap during the breeding portion of the protocol seems to hurt conception. I don't know if that information is any help but it is the best I have to offer.

Gizmom
http://www.gizmoangus.com

 

[toughntender]

I appreciate everyone's input. Looking back I should have clarified a few points. My donors were probably a BCS of 6 to 6.5, and I had early weaned the calves (3 to 4 mo) to get them ready. I also had close to 25 virgin heifers synced up that I was using for recips, as I wanted to do fresh embryos. Initially I had the same thought as you pdgangus, if I am going through all this work, I am not going to short them on feed. After speaking to a few others they claim that to much extra energy is bad. All they do is some medium quality first cutting hay and mineral. I had not thought of doing any injectable vitamins, but it sounds like a good idea. What kind? B vitamin complex? How often?
The outfit that does my E. T., did exactly what yours does Gizmom. They started them out on a baseline protocol then fine tuned it as we went. The did make the comment that my one cow made only good embryos, but just not a whole lot of them.(She had the 7 grade 1's, and 1 grade 2) While the other one responded like a rabbit, but only had a few high quality ones.(2 grade 1's and 1 grade 3, the other 7 were degraded).
I was hoping that it was something that I was doing wrong and that it's not just luck of the draw. Thanks

 

[polledbull]

I dont think i would use virgin heifers for recips , they are not proven , and with embryos, i doubt you are breeding for that kind of calving ease, good luck with that one , I would think you would be setting up a donor for progeny with growth and performance , and using recips that have raised a calf before since you are spending the kind of money and time it takes to flush donors.

 

[pdfangus]

The other aspect of a little daily grain, and this is where I had the daily vitamins and minerals rather than an injection,

is the ease of handling.....I was doing two cows and fed them both daily in a headlock....they got to be as calm as holsteins about lockups....

when I was doing the set up shots I fed them in the headchute....after a day or two both cows would be standing at the gate wanting to go inot the chute for thier grain....

by the way...this was several years ago and I do not remember counts but I had quite a few cows set up with them ... donors and recips had calves on them....we had a good flush and ended up freezing some becasue I ran out of recips...

 

[toughntender]

Hi everyone. I have a question about some of the supplements for flush cows. Has anybody ever used a product from select sires called Royal Flush?
Here's the description-
Royal Flush contains high levels of vitamins, beta carotene, kelp as a source of over 60 trace minerals and vitamins, and highly available chelated trace minerals for better reproductive function. For best results, feed it to your flush cows a minimum of 60 days before flushing.

It costs about $.60 per head per day. There are other supplements out there too. Do they even work? Thanks

 

[WalnutCrest]

Step One -- Make sure the donor cow isn't already bred.



A cow we wanted to use as a donor was bred last fall by a bull that came over the fence to say "HI" ... so, about 6 weeks later, we had a vet check her for pregnancy ... he palpated and felt nothing ... so, we didn't lute her.

My ET guy has her at his place ... and he's not seen a cycle in the last four weeks ...

...so, we're preg checking her again here in a little while. Not happy about this...

 

[WalnutCrest]

...vet says to expect a heat in the next 4-7 days...

My theory is that getting used to life in KS threw her off a little bit (she only arrived here from half a country away in early December).

We'll see.