Jogeephus
Well-known member
Fred Belknap":3k1h8ki5 said:
:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: That's good!
Electric cars create problem for Texas
- Thread starter cowboy43
- Start date
:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: That's good!
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
in the old days you could drive a couple days without the alternator charging, just on a hot battery....with all the electronics now, you better have a a good alternator or you dead in the water
Jogeephus
Well-known member
ALACOWMAN":24jvlinm said:
Yep, whatever happened to the box of matches and the crank bar. Anyone remember lightning matches to help crank the tractor? And I complain about jumper cables. Man have I gotten soft. :lol2:
Jogeephus
Well-known member
dun":358sn0cz said:
Bet he was smarter for it. Probably even realized country folks aren't as dumb as he was told but I bet ya'll got got confirmation for your beliefs about them.
When I got him back from the doctors he never spoke to me again, and we were room mates for about a month after that. The magneto wasn;t the cause directly of the doctors visit but it was indirectlyJogeephus":1hz1j75j said:
MistyMorning
Well-known member
dun":2vsis7t4 said:
Give me a one line quote from that incident so I can change my sig line. :D
Angus Cowman
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Heck a good alternator on a truck now won't keep it running if the battery goes badALACOWMAN":1hobjjpn said:
I know I had a chevy and it would eat batteries it would start and run but if you applied the brakes it would kill the truck had to have it hauled in and it was a bad battery had to replace 2 before 22,000 miles and after the 2nd one I put hooked2 batteries up in it and never had a problem after that
SRBeef
Well-known member
Two comments on the above: I suspect that pure plug-in electric vehicles will handle the road maintenance with an annual addition to the registration/license fees as is done in several European countries where license plates vary enormously by the HP or weight of the vehicle itself.
By the way I assume most here realize that the "hybrids" such as the Toyota Prius still get all of their fuel from gasoline. The batteries are charged by a smaller gas engine running an alternator. I do believe there is a plug-in version coming where the batteries can also be charged by house current overnight.
As far as the electric grid being able to handle plug-in electric cars - the cars may actually help the electrical generation business in this country.
The entire electrical generation and distribution system in the US must be designed to meet the "peak demand" spike which is usually a very hot afternoon in the summer. Meeting this demand spike means the entire system is over-designed for much of the rest of the year and time of day.
By charging electric cars' batteries overnight we will be using that off peak capacity of both the generation system and the distribution system (except maybe for some local issues).
An interesting concept is the idea that maybe many of these electric cars could remain plugged in during the day and provide a national storage bank of electricity, possibly reducing the demand for additional, usually expensive, peak generating capacity.
Plug-in electric cars could charge their batteries during overnight low demand times and feed back into the grid at certain times. This is sort of like the system used in some places where excess electricity overnight is used to pump water up a hill which is then used to run turbines during the day to get that energy back. Electric generating system really like to run and run much more efficiently, at a constant load
The hurdles in this system are more political than engineering. It would pit the oil companies (who want to sell oil) against the electric companies. Can you imagine the windfall for paid lobbyists and TV ads on this one!
In the end though a mix of appropriate vehicles for different jobs and geographic areas is probably the most efficient system for the future. My engineer's view. Jim
By the way I assume most here realize that the "hybrids" such as the Toyota Prius still get all of their fuel from gasoline. The batteries are charged by a smaller gas engine running an alternator. I do believe there is a plug-in version coming where the batteries can also be charged by house current overnight.
As far as the electric grid being able to handle plug-in electric cars - the cars may actually help the electrical generation business in this country.
The entire electrical generation and distribution system in the US must be designed to meet the "peak demand" spike which is usually a very hot afternoon in the summer. Meeting this demand spike means the entire system is over-designed for much of the rest of the year and time of day.
By charging electric cars' batteries overnight we will be using that off peak capacity of both the generation system and the distribution system (except maybe for some local issues).
An interesting concept is the idea that maybe many of these electric cars could remain plugged in during the day and provide a national storage bank of electricity, possibly reducing the demand for additional, usually expensive, peak generating capacity.
Plug-in electric cars could charge their batteries during overnight low demand times and feed back into the grid at certain times. This is sort of like the system used in some places where excess electricity overnight is used to pump water up a hill which is then used to run turbines during the day to get that energy back. Electric generating system really like to run and run much more efficiently, at a constant load
The hurdles in this system are more political than engineering. It would pit the oil companies (who want to sell oil) against the electric companies. Can you imagine the windfall for paid lobbyists and TV ads on this one!
In the end though a mix of appropriate vehicles for different jobs and geographic areas is probably the most efficient system for the future. My engineer's view. Jim
john250
Well-known member
Good overview of the topic, SRBeef.
One question. You're saying the grid is overbuilt--but I keep hearing we need to "rebuild the grid". Any disconnect there?
One question. You're saying the grid is overbuilt--but I keep hearing we need to "rebuild the grid". Any disconnect there?
SRBeef
Well-known member
john250":1p99rnml said:
Thanks for the kind words, John. I am not an expert in the US electrical distribution system by any means. The distribution system has quite a number of issues, mainly It just doesn't go where it is needed in many cases.
For example, areas such as the northern plains that have the potential to generate a lot of wind power barely have any wind generators because there are simply not enough power transmission lines to get that power to where it is consumed. So large windfarms are put in in places such as north central Illinois, which really does NOT have average the winds for it, but is close to the transmission lines feeding the Chicago area.
As I travel the midwest on my day job, I often think that a way to solve a couple different problems would be to build a network of electric power transmission lines along the Interstate highway system right of ways. For example a large N-S line along I-29 and I-35 etc could connect to E-W lines along I-90, I-80 and I-70 etc and get power to where it is needed anywhere in the US. It could be like a toll booth on a highway: there would be meters at on and off points where folks get paid for the electricity they put in and pay for the electricity they take off the grid.
There would not be expensive right of way since the federal interstates system already owns enough real estate in most areas. The system would also be self-financed from "tolls" on electricity transmitted. It would require some loans to get started but those may actually be able to be privately placed bonds etc since there was almost a guaranteed return on the investment once the system got into service, maybe in stages...
But overall the current US electric grid is fragmented and not really a national grid. Creating a grid along the Interstates, using US steel and copper in US-manufactured wire and towers and cables we would be making something that like the Eisenhower interstates, would last for generations and also get our economy going and many people employed creating something useful...
So with a reduced need for future new fossil fuel generating capacity, and a distribution system to feed power in and out from wind turbines, parked plug in electric cars or whatever from where it is generated to where it is needed we could get into the future with more power available from less fossil fuel...jmho.
Jim
jedstivers
Well-known member
Jim, only one problem with your plan. It makes way to much sense.
Angus Cowman
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:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:jedstivers":22tit0ii said:
TexasBred
Well-known member
TXU or someone is in the process of building a new distribution line across one of our places. Bringing electricity from the windfarms out west to Central Texas I guess.
backhoeboogie
Well-known member
TexasBred":1k8q0ng4 said:
They added some switching stations and ties already. The wind generation throws a lot of instability onto the grid. It seems ERCOT is continually asking conventional power plants to back off on power and increase VARS to add stability when the wind generation starts oscillating the grid. Recent changes should help.
Instability could cause all plants to trip off line similar to what happened in the north east a few years back.
Alternating current is a series of peaks and valleys. If all plants are not peaking at the same time, you get a mess and potentially rip generators right out of their foundations. Units will trip to protect themselves. Wind instability is a serious threat. Western parts of Texas provide for great wind potential. Somehow, some way, we have to figure out how to get wind generation more stable.
Nice job SRBeef. It would take pages and pages to explain things completely. As far as understanding what's going on across the U.S., I don't think any of us could keep up. We have very little hydro generation here in Texas. What little we have is used for peakers in the mid day of summer. The large hydro units elsewhere across the U.S. seem to be where it is at for grid stability and renewable energy.
