We have just purchased some land and want to put it to pasture. You are always commenting on clover. Do I get this in the pasture mix, or seperate? Sweet clover, red clover, green clover..... I had a man tell me he was steering calves that had been on sweet clover and after he had cut a few head he looked out and saw most had laid down and were bleeding to death because the sweet colver thins their blood, is this true?
Dun...clover question
- Thread starter Dee
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Have no idea what is classified as "sweet clover". We use a mixture of the large white clovers or named red clovers. We've never had problems with any excessive bleeding when they've been on clover. But we mostly band, and the few we do cut are only about a month or so old. If we could grow another grass, other then high endophyte fescue, we probably wouldn't be as sold on clover.
dun
dun
Sweet clover - yellow or white? Both usually grow very tall and it is a thin plant. It contains cumin or cuminin (sp?) Not a good thing for cattle - tends to knock them down - sometimes permanently. OK in very small amounts.
I never allow my animals near the stuff. As for other clovers - well, it's only a local knowledge, but .......
I have always said any clover pasture has a great deal of risk - bloat can strike and strike hard. Especially for hungry cows on an empty stomach. As for your regular clovers - well, it is ok in small amounts. If you put it in your pasture mix, be sure it is a low percentage. Eventually it will take over - competes harder than grasses.
Like all legumes it can be bad - especially if it is in a rapid growing stage - like during the spring. If you are going to graze it be sure it is mature and the flower tops are black - at least in this area that is the signal it will probably not cause you too much trouble.
Don't let your horses - if you have any - get near Alsike clover - bad for them in large amounts.
Most clovers makes a great hay crop - loves cool weather and will come back real fast.
Bez
I never allow my animals near the stuff. As for other clovers - well, it's only a local knowledge, but .......
I have always said any clover pasture has a great deal of risk - bloat can strike and strike hard. Especially for hungry cows on an empty stomach. As for your regular clovers - well, it is ok in small amounts. If you put it in your pasture mix, be sure it is a low percentage. Eventually it will take over - competes harder than grasses.
Like all legumes it can be bad - especially if it is in a rapid growing stage - like during the spring. If you are going to graze it be sure it is mature and the flower tops are black - at least in this area that is the signal it will probably not cause you too much trouble.
Don't let your horses - if you have any - get near Alsike clover - bad for them in large amounts.
Most clovers makes a great hay crop - loves cool weather and will come back real fast.
Bez
certherfbeef
Well-known member
We have a lot of Ladino clover here. But have some red clover in the heifer pasture. I had the heifers dry lotted this spring while I AI them. Had them on grain and dry hay. Got them all bred, they passed over one heat, so I turned them out. Like Bez said, the clover was in a growth state...it aborted all 15 heifers. Just like giving them all a shot of Lute.
The embroylogist said he was positive it was the clover. If I has waited till they were 45 days safe in calf, he calims it wouldn't have dumped the calves.
Just a piece of information, do with it what you want.
The embroylogist said he was positive it was the clover. If I has waited till they were 45 days safe in calf, he calims it wouldn't have dumped the calves.
Just a piece of information, do with it what you want.
Interesting. Most of our pastures run 50-80% mix of red and white clover. Never had fertility problems, never had bloat, never had abortions. It could be because it's a normal part of their forage that it doesn't cause a problem.
Hungry cows will bloat on legumes, except lespedeza, and it is a possible problem. I've watched the cows graze through areas og clover and on into straight grass. They don;t make a big deal over the clover, it's just something to eat. I used to be really concerned about it, but now, although I still keep an eye out for it, I don't worry about it.
We put 5 bred heifers that belonged to the vet in a field of nearly total red clover. Left them there somewhere around 5 months, I'ld have to check the dates to be sure. When we pulled them out they had started ignoring the clover and were eating the little grass (fescue) and the weeds rather then the clover. The clover was knee high when we pulled them and sent them home, the grass and weeds werre eaten to the ground.
Although it is recommended that pastures be no more then 30% clover, in our experience it isn't really all that critical if it's plentifull enough that it's not a special treat type of feed.
dun
Hungry cows will bloat on legumes, except lespedeza, and it is a possible problem. I've watched the cows graze through areas og clover and on into straight grass. They don;t make a big deal over the clover, it's just something to eat. I used to be really concerned about it, but now, although I still keep an eye out for it, I don't worry about it.
We put 5 bred heifers that belonged to the vet in a field of nearly total red clover. Left them there somewhere around 5 months, I'ld have to check the dates to be sure. When we pulled them out they had started ignoring the clover and were eating the little grass (fescue) and the weeds rather then the clover. The clover was knee high when we pulled them and sent them home, the grass and weeds werre eaten to the ground.
Although it is recommended that pastures be no more then 30% clover, in our experience it isn't really all that critical if it's plentifull enough that it's not a special treat type of feed.
dun
That's the whole point in the clover component, to mitigate the effects of the endophyte. In another month or two it will be strictly fescue, the clover will have died back, but once it goes dormant the endophyte level is decreased.
A coouple of years ago the folks at the U of MO threw out the idea that maybe hay should be fed early in thw fall and winter and stockpiled fescue grazed during the later winter. In theory that would put them on a lower endophyte level during the coldest time when endophyte has a more severe affect.
dun
A coouple of years ago the folks at the U of MO threw out the idea that maybe hay should be fed early in thw fall and winter and stockpiled fescue grazed during the later winter. In theory that would put them on a lower endophyte level during the coldest time when endophyte has a more severe affect.
dun
MrBilly
Well-known member
I hate to admit I agree with Dun, but I do.
We too have toxic fescue to deal with. Several years ago we planted the new white clover called Durana. It has several advantages one of which is it dilutes the toxicity of the fescue, another is it fixes nitrogen in the soil, and third it is nutritious and the cows love it.
Initially we did have some bloat problems but very litte. No abortions and no fertility problems Our stand is probably 50% of the pasture and they adapt to it, so now bloat is not a problem. Our clover slows down in late December and January, but we do not have the cold nights that Dun has, so there is some clover throughout the year.
Unlike many ladino clovers, Durana is a persistent variety and that is why we planted it. It is expensive, but if it lasts, then it is worth it compared to some over white varieties.
Billy
We too have toxic fescue to deal with. Several years ago we planted the new white clover called Durana. It has several advantages one of which is it dilutes the toxicity of the fescue, another is it fixes nitrogen in the soil, and third it is nutritious and the cows love it.
Initially we did have some bloat problems but very litte. No abortions and no fertility problems Our stand is probably 50% of the pasture and they adapt to it, so now bloat is not a problem. Our clover slows down in late December and January, but we do not have the cold nights that Dun has, so there is some clover throughout the year.
Unlike many ladino clovers, Durana is a persistent variety and that is why we planted it. It is expensive, but if it lasts, then it is worth it compared to some over white varieties.
Billy
I seem to recall that red clover can cause abortions in range maggots. I don't recall what it is but supposedly has an estrogen type affect. Also with horses it can cause slobbering. I haven't sat down and done any re-research. I did the original research and determined that for cattle it would do the job.
We've never had the fescue tested for endophyte, but it is generally prsumed to be a very hot type because it has persisted for some 50 years in a highly abusive dairy grazing application.
We've tried to dilute it with OG which I'm sure has helped some, but primarily we use clover. It's usually considered short lived and requires reseeding periodically, but we alwasy get some seed each year and the stuff just keeps growing. It's actaully been more succesfull at crowding out some of the weeds then the grasses have. Doesn't compete well with blackberry or MF rose, but Remedy is the only thing I've found that competes well with them.
dun
We've never had the fescue tested for endophyte, but it is generally prsumed to be a very hot type because it has persisted for some 50 years in a highly abusive dairy grazing application.
We've tried to dilute it with OG which I'm sure has helped some, but primarily we use clover. It's usually considered short lived and requires reseeding periodically, but we alwasy get some seed each year and the stuff just keeps growing. It's actaully been more succesfull at crowding out some of the weeds then the grasses have. Doesn't compete well with blackberry or MF rose, but Remedy is the only thing I've found that competes well with them.
dun
ollie":ltzoshbg said:
It dies back but the ground is still pretty much covred by the dead/residual plant matter. The fields that have the heavy clover aren't grazed in the winter. Once they get the grass down they're rotated to other pastures that are more grass and less clover. That's where they get into the stockpiled fescue that (in theory) has lower endophyte.
MUD, that's a year round problem. Except for a couple of area that actualy have soil, the mud doesn't get all that deep or sloppy more then an inch or 2 deep. Maybe that's an advantage of having shallow rocky poor quality dirt(?). The areas that get pounded/chewed up by the girls making paths to the water point will get frost seeded in the February with a little clover and fescue/OG mix. They don;t get back into those fields until spring, then they're run through them pretty fast.
It has taken some real creativity to figure out how to utilize the forage we have and I'm still trying to improve the usage.
In years like this that are exceptionally wet it's a real challenge. Trying to keep the grass at a good length for spring regrowth and not so tall as to impede the new growth.has been a problem this year. Very mild weather and way too much rain.
We have one back hay field that I had wanted them to graze close so we could frost seed in some clover, it's one of the few fields that has very little clvoer. They're so spoiled by being rotated every couple of days that they raise caine when I go back there after they've been in it for a couple of days. Currently the grass is still 10-12 inches, and it's been hayed and grzed three times.
dun
A little clarification for those that don't have clover running rampant in their pasture/hay fields. The clover doesn't generally cover as much area as you would think. Even at 50% that isn't the area, that's the percentage of forage. With clovers growing a larger percentage of mass for a given area, it doesn't take much area in comparisons to grasses.
dun
dun
