Dumb question.

[strihafarms]

I have a dumb question for those of you who understand color in calves. I thought that red cattle had two recessive genes for color correct? So what I am wondering is if a red cow is bred to a red bull shouldn't all the combinations make red calves?

 

[Kingfisher]

http://www.extension.org/pages/72664/co ... SHprpW9Kc0

 

[strihafarms]

If I am reading this correctly than my assumption is correct. The reason I asked is because I have a red heifer that was supposed to be bred to a red angus bull but today she had a black calf. The only thing I can figure is that she got AIed to a black bull instead of the red one they told me.

 

[dun]

If I am reading this correctly than my assumption is correct. The reason I asked is because I have a red heifer that was supposed to be bred to a red angus bull but today she had a black calf. The only thing I can figure is that she got AIed to a black bull instead of the red one they told me.

That pretty much sums it up!

 

[strihafarms]

Thanks for confirming what I thought. Sorry for bothering everyone

 

[Caustic Burno]

If I am reading this correctly than my assumption is correct. The reason I asked is because I have a red heifer that was supposed to be bred to a red angus bull but today she had a black calf. The only thing I can figure is that she got AIed to a black bull instead of the red one they told me.

That pretty much sums it up!

I am not a genetic expert by any means.
I have a couple of registered Herefords left same line that will have a solid black calf from time to time.
No white face at all the way is was explained to me was she had one dominant and one recessive red gene.
Odds are two in four will be solid black.
Now here is my question couldn't a Red Angus bull stir carry a black gene since they all came out of the same woodpile
giving you a 1 n 4 shot at a black calf. Unless he has been tested as Homozygous or am I missing something here.

 

[Nesikep]

From what I understood of coloration, is the black will ALWAYS show if they have any black genes, the red will show if there's no black to mask it... thus a red animal can't carry a black gene.

The other way around, a homo-black cow or bull will always throw black calves regardless of if the mate is red or black, however a hetero black cow bred to a red bull will throw about 50% black/50%red calves.. if she's bred to another hetero black bull, it'll be 75% black, 25% red calves.

 

[dun]

From what I understood of coloration, is the black will ALWAYS show if they have any black genes, the red will show if there's no black to mask it... thus a red animal can't carry a black gene.

The other way around, a homo-black cow or bull will always throw black calves regardless of if the mate is red or black, however a hetero black cow bred to a red bull will throw about 50% black/50%red calves.. if she's bred to another hetero black bull, it'll be 75% black, 25% red calves.

Yup, that's exactly how it works. If it's red there are no black genes.

 

[strihafarms]

The way I understood it it just Nesi said black can be a red carrier but red can only be red carrier because of the recessive genes. Thanks again everyone.

 

[dun]

We do have one Red Angus cow that is so dark red she almost looks black. But she is definitly red, the black appearance is just a trick of the light.

 

[branguscowgirl]

. The only thing I can figure is that she got AIed to a black bull instead of the red one they told me

A $20 DNA test can tell you for sure. (If it makes a difference to you.)

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Had some Hetro black cows at one time. Only red calves they ever had was from a hetro black bull. Never had a red calf from them as long as they were bred to a red bull.

 

[Jake]

If I am reading this correctly than my assumption is correct. The reason I asked is because I have a red heifer that was supposed to be bred to a red angus bull but today she had a black calf. The only thing I can figure is that she got AIed to a black bull instead of the red one they told me.

That pretty much sums it up!

I am not a genetic expert by any means.
I have a couple of registered Herefords left same line that will have a solid black calf from time to time.
No white face at all the way is was explained to me was she had one dominant and one recessive red gene.
Odds are two in four will be solid black.
Now here is my question couldn't a Red Angus bull stir carry a black gene since they all came out of the same woodpile
giving you a 1 n 4 shot at a black calf. Unless he has been tested as Homozygous or am I missing something here.

Black is always dominant to red. The red came from a recessive mutation so you can never have a black calf from two red parents. Has to be something else at play (neighbors bull/ai mix up).

The solid black calf out of a hereford cow intrigues me. Until recently you never heard of such things as the white face is suppose to be a dominant trait. Makes you wonder what's in the wood pile on the herfs or if there has been a mutation that causes it.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Jake I know that the black is supposed the be dominant just like the polled gene.
We got Red Angus from Black and the Polled gene wont cover the African Horn gene. Seems like there is always an exception
or anomaly to the rule.
We have Herefords as it was explained to me with dominant and recessive gene that allows the white to be covered
up. I can't remember who on the board explained it to me last year as it had never happen before with her out of the
same bull.

 

[Andyva]

Black is not always dominant to red. Holsteins had a dominant red mutation. I have seen a solid black calf out of what was supposed to be a Hereford. Maybe the effort to get pigment around the eyes selected for some hidden genes.

 

[Jake]

Jake I know that the black is supposed the be dominant just like the polled gene.
We got Red Angus from Black and the Polled gene wont cover the African Horn gene. Seems like there is always an exception
or anomaly to the rule.
We have Herefords as it was explained to me with dominant and recessive gene that allows the white to be covered
up. I can't remember who on the board explained it to me last year as it had never happen before with her out of the
same bull.

Anything that gets sex linked starts to get pretty screwy as far as dominance. If somebody smart than me can explain some of the mutations and their dominance or co-dominance I'd appreciate the info.

I still would tend to say stick with the simple explanations first before going to blaming mutations or rarities

 

[Andyva]

The dominant red in Holsteins is pretty straight forward, it's like the African horn gene, except as far as I know it isn't sex linked. You have dominant black, and recessive red and then dominant red, which is dominant to both recessive red and dominant black. The thing that makes people confused on the African horn gene is that you can have a hetero African horned cow that is polled and she can throw other hetero African horned calves, and as it is a dominant, all hetero African horned bull calves will show horns. This could make it seem to come out of the woodworks a long way down the line. As far as I know, the whiteface gene is totally dominant and a solid calf from a whiteface parent would indicate that the whiteface animal is hetero for the whiteface gene.

 

[Andyva]

As for "blaming mutations" all of the things that we are talking about are mutations. Polledness, black, etc.. Since it a mutation occurred to give us these traits it could be reasonable to assume that they could happen at any time.

 

[dun]

Everything you ever wanted to know about color and then some!
http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/colors.html

 

[Jake]

As for "blaming mutations" all of the things that we are talking about are mutations. Polledness, black, etc.. Since it a mutation occurred to give us these traits it could be reasonable to assume that they could happen at any time.

Especially after what dun posted. The chances of something being caused by human or animal behavior is much higher rather than mutation is all I'm trying to say.

Let's check the boxes against all the easy options before we start using mutations to explain something.