Dogs

[Craig-TX]

A bullet is just as humane as anything a vet can do. If I was about to be executed I'd take a firing squad over a needle any day.

Craig-TX

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

On a side note...back in the 1940's my dad did his own (knife) castrations. If he was still around and tried that on my herd I'd chase him off the property....

Bill something about that don't seem right to me.

Don't understand your reply???

My dad was my father, not a God. Just because he cut off balls off with a knife and no pain killers used doesn't mean I would allow him to get close to my herd.

 

[Texan]

Don't understand your reply???

I sure understand what you're saying, Ollie!

Just because he cut off balls off with a knife and no pain killers used doesn't mean I would allow him to get close to my herd.

I guess I don't understand what you're saying though, Bill. Do you actually think castration, whether its baby calves or 9wt cutting bulls, is really a surgical process that needs to be done with scalpel and pain killers?

 

[ollie]

Alan and Bill . I am real small time operator. If you really want to do some good for the Mamalian class then you should direct your attention to paddlock ranches of Montana. Deseret ranches of Florida would also be a nifty score. Tell them not to work their few thousand head unless they use anesthesia . Also want to contact the north midwest and tell those states when Branding to use a more humane way. Give all the new calves laughing gas as they are coming down the ally so they don't feel the pain.
Why don't you guys go to the peta website? This is silly.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Alan and Bill . I am real small time operator. If you really want to do some good for the Mamalian class then you should direct your attention to paddlock ranches of Montana. Deseret ranches of Florida would also be a nifty score. Tell them not to work there few thousand head unless they use anesthesia . Also want to contact the north midwest and tell those states when Branding to use a more humane way. Give all the new calves laughing gas as they are coming down the ally so they don't feel the pain.
Why don't you guys go to the peta website? This is silly.

Now correct me if I'm wrong this all started over a dog (with rights).
And the first suggestion was a 22 bullet in the ear, that went to banding to a family feud.

 

[Texan]

Now correct me if I'm wrong this all started over a dog (with rights).

Not correcting you, Caustic. You just left out the part about the dog having feelings, along with rights. And somehow it moved on to a calf having feelings, I guess.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Now correct me if I'm wrong this all started over a dog (with rights).

Not correcting you, Caustic. You just left out the part about the dog having feelings, along with rights. And somehow it moved on to a calf having feelings, I guess.

Texan I apologize for missing these key points. My calves have feelings also as I am loading them in the trailer for the salebarn. They are only scared of two things my case pocket knife and a gooseneck.

 

[Alan]

Well as usual you guys have twisted the words, while I know that dogs have feelings of happiness, excitement, fear and anger (think about it). What I said they feel physical pain. I know that a lot of cattle outfits still hack them off with the ol' case or buck knife, but I know most band calves as young as they possible can, much different than cutting a yearling bull with a knife. This isn't an animal rights issue as much as it is common sense. Maybe some of you ol' timers should join the current century. If you have a good working relationship with a Vet you MAY be able to get seditives or a local as well as other non controllable drugs for your cattle.

No it is not okay to hold a dog down while you castrate him. Some of you tough cowboys ask your wives or daughters (in-laws) if it's okay!

Just to sit the record staight...I'm not liberal at all, very conservative.

Alan

 

[Texan]

.....I know most band calves as young as they possible can......

Well, as usual Alan, this is another case where you're wrong. Most feeders still prefer knife-cut cattle. Maybe its different out there on the West Coast?

Maybe some of you ol' timers should join the current century.

Whoa there, little cowboy! Maybe you should think about learning something from the "ol' timers" instead of trying to teach.

If you have a good working relationship with a Vet you MAY be able to get seditives or a local as well as other non controllable drugs for your cattle.

Alan, surely you can't be serious! If I talked to my vet about something like that, he'd demand some kind of prompt medical attention for me!

 

[TLCfromARK]

He's an excellent kids dog, my 9 year old son wants to keep him, and I've never casterated anything, and didn't want it bleeding to death. I'm also cheap, so figured the bander would be a good alternative to an expensive vet visit.

If he's such a good kid dog and he's fitting in around your place why do you want to cut him? Do you have purebred dogs also? Normally I'm pretty frugal also ( I don't like to think I'm cheap, :lol: ) but in this case if I planned on cutting the dog I would have a vet do it. Why, peace & harmony at the house, the dog might remember the event, and I don't think I could run a dogs head into a boot while I did the job.


I would only use the ".22" method if I didn't want the dog. I never believed in dropping my troubles out on the side of the road to become someone else's problem.
;-)

 

[Arnold Ziffle]

jim --- Check out the link posted below. It is about the injection I mentioned in an earlier post. And I realize that this injection procedure is all about sterilization, not altering testosterone driven behavior, so it may not be what you're looking for in any event.

I don't really know why this method should be so much cheaper than having a vet do it the "old way", but the TV reports I saw gave me the impression that local vets would in fact be able to do the procedure far more cheaply. The linked item makes mention of doing it with "puppies", but the TV reports I saw dealt with mature dogs.



http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/ANSWERS/2 ... 01221.html

 

[Alan]

Alan wrote:
.....I know most band calves as young as they possible can......

Well, as usual Alan, this is another case where you're wrong. Most feeders still prefer knife-cut cattle. Maybe its different out there on the West Coast?

I'm speaking of Cow/calf operations, not feed lots and I would assume most feed lots do not castrate many older animals. But your right I don't know much about feed lot operations, my focus is on cow/calf.

Whoa there, little cowboy! Maybe you should think about learning something from the "ol' timers" instead of trying to teach

Some of the "ol timers" are teaching me things, how not to treat people, running them down if they have a different opinion or twisting their words. But to most of you "ol timers" I do respect and admire your knowledge and skill and welcome your advice... most of you do it without running "newbies" like me over. I do realize I'm a newbie. I'm just the kind of guy who gets hit and comes back swinging (most of the time without thinking first, but i'm working on that). I should say also, I haven't seen one of you guys say it's okay to hold a dog down cut off his parts. You show your wisdom by staying out of such conversations. But if a newbie asks if it's okay to casterate a dog with knife with no medical attention my morals say speak up.

Alan, surely you can't be serious! If I talked to my vet about something like that, he'd demand some kind of prompt medical attention for me!

I'm saying if you treat your Vet like you do the newbies on this board it's no wonder they don't want to work for you. A Vet is a Medical Dr. they spent 8 years in school just like your family Dr. why should they deserve less respect? If you are a valued client, ie; treat them nice, with respect, realize they are the Dr. and pay your bills on time. They will more than likely be willing to go the extra mile for you. Many Vets will supply small amounts of seditives or locals to ranchers and farmers in good standing (with a vauled client-patient relationship) ... it's called a prescription.

The Newbie
Alan

 

[Mahoney Pursley Ranch]

Alan, I am also a "newbie" on this board and have been treated with the utmost respect and courtesy by every member here who has "chosen" to associate with me. I have even made some new friends here. Perhaps it is the way one projects themselves rather than "what" it is that they say. ;-)

 

[ollie]

If you have a good working relationship with a Vet you MAY be able to get seditives or a local as well as other non controllable drugs for your cattle.

Alan I have a vet and can get the drugs necessary. I have 2% Lidocaine in my glovebox. I don't use it castrating calves. I have all kinds of antibiotic as well. I don't use any of them either. It is my choice. It is not that I don't know as much as you or that I don't know a vet. As a matter of fact I am partnership with a Vet in another state on a bull. It is simply going to blow your mind but I think they are animals. Not people.

 

[Alan]

Ollie,

Mostly I'm talking about castrating dogs without seditives (this post is about castrating a dog) and while I have no problem hunting or shooting a problem animal (livestock chaser for example). I believe that it's a lot different shooting a dog getting your livestock than holding a dog down to castrate him because your don't want to spend the money on Vet. Don't make this discussion more than it is.

My point on the Vets is I've read alot of negitive post on Vets. Like your family dog if you give your Vet a reason not to like you, they won't like you. If you don't like your Vet find a new one. You must have a good enough relationship with your Vet to get the local, why risk the relationship by complaining about him/her wanting to make a profit for their services? (my point here really doesn't need a answer it's more a point than a question)

How do you castrate your calves? Band young or knife when they get older?


Alan

 

[Alan]

Arnold,

I have also heard about the injection you have post about, from what I have heard you are right on. I haven't read the link you provided yet, but did read an article on it a few months back. If I remember correctly the injection is given into each testicle and makes them sterile. But you are correct that it doesn't take away the testosterone behavior, such as roaming and fighting. Again, if I remember correctly because of the injection site there is lots of swelling and most dogs still need a seditive to get the injection done. But the cost factor is much cheaper for both the Vet and the client. I haven't heard of any Vets using it yet. May have not reach us yet.

Love your name Arnold was one of my favorite actors, him and which ever Gabor (sp) sisters did the show.

Alan

 

[Chuck]

This has gone on so long that Jim had the vet cut the dog,who is now retired,after Jims son,who was nine when he got the dog,graduated from college. :lol: ;-)

 

[Alan]

Nice Chuck!

I guess like the dogs in the fight (me included) we don't know when to let go!

Thanks for the humor.

Alan

 

[Ryder]

A bullet is just as humane as anything a vet can do. If I was about to be executed I'd take a firing squad over a needle any day.

Craig-TX

Craig-TX
I agree with you 100 per cent. A bullet is fast and its over. Animal hopefully does not have to be removed from familiar surroundings and freightened by being taken to a strange place and handled by strange people. I realize some people don't have a way to do this themselves and have to just do the best they can.

Humane society.???. Where they lock a bunch of them in a chamber and gas them? What is humane about that? Maybe they use a different method someplaces, but this is the one I know about.

 

[Texan]

.....I know most band calves as young as they possible can......

Well, as usual Alan, this is another case where you're wrong. Most feeders still prefer knife-cut cattle. Maybe its different out there on the West Coast?

I'm speaking of Cow/calf operations, not feed lots and I would assume most feed lots do not castrate many older animals. But your right I don't know much about feed lot operations, my focus is on cow/calf.

Alan, I'm speaking of cow-calf operators, too. Most of us feel some sort of obligation to provide what our customer wants. One of the interim customers between us and the plate is the feeder. Wouldn't a successful business model dictate that we provide them what they want? We can't just focus on our own sector of the business with no regard for the guy down the chain. Personally, I've never heard of a feeder cattle order that specified banded steers. Maybe you're familiar with some? I have seen a lot of them that spec knife-cuts.

I don't care if you choose to band your calves. But you're fighting a losing battle if you expect the rest of us to use a "local" when doing something as elementary and mundane as cutting calves. And it has nothing to do with a vet-client relationship, or lack thereof. Its about the bottom line. I'd like to think that most cow country vets are like mine. If I asked him for a local just to cut calves, he'd still be rolling on the floor laughing when I left empty-handed!

And FWIW, if I need a dog cut, I'll either take him to the vet or do without. But I sure won't think any differently of the guy that chooses to cut the animal himself!