Distance to water

[options]

One difference could be even though I rotational graze I do not intensive graze. I only move them once a week.

How many cows to the acre !!! What size are your pastures???

600 feet that would be what 5-6 acres? Cows eat the grass down close to the water :shock: KT should put the tank in the center of the large pasture so's the cows don't have to walk so far. :nod: :cowboy:

Maybe KT does have the tank in the middle of his pastures, if that is the case and the pasture is square, 16 acres would about do it. I know nothing about rotational grazing, but common sense would lead me to believe the grass would get longer the farther away from the tank.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I've always heard/read water should be "close" to the cattle rotational grazing. We've been on this farm for 31 years. We have basically 1 water source, behind the barn in the barn lot. Some fields are right outside the lot, some are 3/4 - 1 mile away. Our farm runs from 1 road to the next. I find the cattle "like" to lounge/lay down on the bare dirt. I think they spend just as much time in the lot lounging when they are grazing just outside the lot as they do when they are on the back lots. We have Simmental - not as heavy milkers as they used to be, but still pretty heavy milkers. Wean off 650-750# calves each fall, so "lack of water" mustn't be hurting their milk production.
As mentioned, this rotationally grazed grass is very lush and has lots of water content.
SRBeef, your setup looks really nice. I much prefer the plastic Rubbermaid tubs though. If you get very many cows drinking at the same time - I find they crush the metal tanks. Also, with the plastic tubs, we use the float valves that work under water. My cattle would figure out how to tear apart anything they can play with, although I see you installed yours with pipe.
All in all, it's nice to have water close to them, isn't it.

 

[kenny thomas]

My pastures average about 10-15 acres. It is a little different on each farm. Again, not intensive. Some have been fenced using some of the old fences that were there when we had tobacco grown here. Some of the pastures have more than one water source. I will move them once a week so some of the pastures do not get grazed as much as others. The water tanks that have been installed are not in the middle as I use some of them for more than one pasture by opening and closing gates. Several are in fence line where they can be accessed from either side. Still use a few ponds also.
As they come to water they will graze when leaving and the grass near the water sources are always shorter.

 

[SRBeef]

I've always heard/read water should be "close" to the cattle rotational grazing. We've been on this farm for 31 years. We have basically 1 water source, behind the barn in the barn lot. Some fields are right outside the lot, some are 3/4 - 1 mile away. Our farm runs from 1 road to the next. I find the cattle "like" to lounge/lay down on the bare dirt. I think they spend just as much time in the lot lounging when they are grazing just outside the lot as they do when they are on the back lots. We have Simmental - not as heavy milkers as they used to be, but still pretty heavy milkers. Wean off 650-750# calves each fall, so "lack of water" mustn't be hurting their milk production.
As mentioned, this rotationally grazed grass is very lush and has lots of water content.
SRBeef, your setup looks really nice. I much prefer the plastic Rubbermaid tubs though. If you get very many cows drinking at the same time - I find they crush the metal tanks. Also, with the plastic tubs, we use the float valves that work under water. My cattle would figure out how to tear apart anything they can play with, although I see you installed yours with pipe.
All in all, it's nice to have water close to them, isn't it.

Jeanne, I have one main water source also - a concrete waterer with lanes to it, some pastures about 1/4 mi or a bit more away. My Herefords are used to taking turns getting a drink. I doubt they will crush that steel tank. They will get behind it and step on the hose etc if I let them but that is a pretty hot electric wire just above and behind the valve to keep them out.

My calves and milk production have been fine with the single waterer for a couple years. My only reason for adding this galvanized tank until freeze up is that there is no way for them to get back to my main waterer from this new pasture without going through another pasture that needs a rest. I don't want to setup a long lane for this one pasture.

KT, unless you have a large herd, one week on 10-15 acres in a moist climate area really is pretty low density and not really rotational grazing. As you are seeing, they still have the ability to pick and choose the best grasses. When you have a higher grazing density they tend to eat almost everything. Herefords tend to be pretty aggressive grazers too.

I move mine about once a week also but when I do the whole pasture is grazed to about the same height. In a fresh pasture with maybe 10" tall grass/clover mixture, they seem to make a couple passes a day around it and take it down to maybe 6" the first time around, then to about 3" the second time around and pretty uniformly except for maybe the taller thistles. This is when I move them then I come in with the drag if not too many thistles left or with the flail mower if a lot of weeds left.

The grass is not generally noticeably shorter near the waterer.

I think there is some value to the concept of a "cow-day" worth of grass. If you start out pacing off about one acre (or 1/2 acre or any known area) with an electric wire and watch them every day and see how long it takes them to eat the enclosed area down to about 3" (keep the grass this high so it has enough leaf area left to regrow quickly) and estimate how many cow equivalents you have (lactating cow = 1, steer = .8, bull = .8 =.9 calves = .1-.5 or so on).

After a while you can tell about how many "cow-day" grass you are looking at and about how much area you need to leave them for the week.

This system is not for everyone nor every climate area. But it does get more production per acre where it makes sense. It keeps weeds down and improves the pasture. If you have excess grass, use it for hay this year and pasture it next year....

Or just do what you are doing if that fits your needs. I am acre-limited so I need to get as much beef as possible from each acre. While I'd like to have more land sometimes being limited in some resource forces you to find other ways to do things. Thanks for the replies. Jim

 

[kenny thomas]

Jim, I agree with what you said but right now this is about as intensive as I will get. I still get some benifit from it as they are only on a pasture once every 4-5 weeks. I have plenty of grass and can get more acres if needed, I just don't have the time and energy to do it.

 

[dun]

I've always heard/read water should be "close" to the cattle rotational grazing. We've been on this farm for 31 years. We have basically 1 water source, behind the barn in the barn lot. Some fields are right outside the lot, some are 3/4 - 1 mile away. Our farm runs from 1 road to the next. I find the cattle "like" to lounge/lay down on the bare dirt. I think they spend just as much time in the lot lounging when they are grazing just outside the lot as they do when they are on the back lots. We have Simmental - not as heavy milkers as they used to be, but still pretty heavy milkers. Wean off 650-750# calves each fall, so "lack of water" mustn't be hurting their milk production.
As mentioned, this rotationally grazed grass is very lush and has lots of water content.
SRBeef, your setup looks really nice. I much prefer the plastic Rubbermaid tubs though. If you get very many cows drinking at the same time - I find they crush the metal tanks. Also, with the plastic tubs, we use the float valves that work under water. My cattle would figure out how to tear apart anything they can play with, although I see you installed yours with pipe.
All in all, it's nice to have water close to them, isn't it.

I've gotten ;azier too. Rather then having to put up new fence every couple of days I leave them for a week orso. Pasture is pretty evenly grazed down by then. But the stuff nearest the water is alwasy some shorter. When I can see a definite graze line at the hotwire I'll put up another wire and move them. Used to move them every 3-4 days but I'm getting too old for that fun
Jeanne, I have one main water source also - a concrete waterer with lanes to it, some pastures about 1/4 mi or a bit more away. My Herefords are used to taking turns getting a drink. I doubt they will crush that steel tank. They will get behind it and step on the hose etc if I let them but that is a pretty hot electric wire just above and behind the valve to keep them out.

My calves and milk production have been fine with the single waterer for a couple years. My only reason for adding this galvanized tank until freeze up is that there is no way for them to get back to my main waterer from this new pasture without going through another pasture that needs a rest. I don't want to setup a long lane for this one pasture.

KT, unless you have a large herd, one week on 10-15 acres in a moist climate area really is pretty low density and not really rotational grazing. As you are seeing, they still have the ability to pick and choose the best grasses. When you have a higher grazing density they tend to eat almost everything. Herefords tend to be pretty aggressive grazers too.

I move mine about once a week also but when I do the whole pasture is grazed to about the same height. In a fresh pasture with maybe 10" tall grass/clover mixture, they seem to make a couple passes a day around it and take it down to maybe 6" the first time around, then to about 3" the second time around and pretty uniformly except for maybe the taller thistles. This is when I move them then I come in with the drag if not too many thistles left or with the flail mower if a lot of weeds left.

The grass is not generally noticeably shorter near the waterer.

I think there is some value to the concept of a "cow-day" worth of grass. If you start out pacing off about one acre (or 1/2 acre or any known area) with an electric wire and watch them every day and see how long it takes them to eat the enclosed area down to about 3" (keep the grass this high so it has enough leaf area left to regrow quickly) and estimate how many cow equivalents you have (lactating cow = 1, steer = .8, bull = .8 =.9 calves = .1-.5 or so on).

After a while you can tell about how many "cow-day" grass you are looking at and about how much area you need to leave them for the week.

This system is not for everyone nor every climate area. But it does get more production per acre where it makes sense. It keeps weeds down and improves the pasture. If you have excess grass, use it for hay this year and pasture it next year....

Or just do what you are doing if that fits your needs. I am acre-limited so I need to get as much beef as possible from each acre. While I'd like to have more land sometimes being limited in some resource forces you to find other ways to do things. Thanks for the replies. Jim

 

[JRGidaho`]

I know this is bringing a thread back to life, but I thought I would clarify a few things regarding travel distance to water. The 600 to 900 ft optimal travel distance was developed in Missouri under high heat and humidity conditions with endophyte infected tall fescue in the mix. In other words, in a very heat stressful situation. In the research study, there was a huge difference in grazing patterns as they related to travel distance to water with very little grazing taking place beyond 1000 ft from water.

Since we moved to Idaho and heat stress is virtually non-exisitent, I am very comfortable with a quarter mile travel distance to water on irrigated pasture. Beyond that distance, the tools used for temporary fencing become cumbersome. To me that is more of a limitation than travel distance, per se.

On rangeland, use patterns indicate travel distance to water beyond 1/2 mile typically shows a utilization gradient. The gradient does not become meaningful until the distance approaches a mile. Thus, if you had water developments every 2 miles on rangeland, the grazing efficiency would be close to optimal. Steepness of terrain is, of course, another factor affecting these distances.

Going back to the 600 to 900 ft guideline... If you had 800 acres divided into twenty 40-acre paddocks with a water tank at the center of each 40-acre paddock, the cattle would be within 900 ft of the tank over 90% of the time. In our part of MO, 800 acres properly managed would have supported 400 pairs year around so you could afford to spend quite a bit on water developments.

Hope this clears the air a bit concerning travel distance to water.

 

[talldog]

I know this is bringing a thread back to life, but I thought I would clarify a few things regarding travel distance to water. The 600 to 900 ft optimal travel distance was developed in Missouri under high heat and humidity conditions with endophyte infected tall fescue in the mix. In other words, in a very heat stressful situation. In the research study, there was a huge difference in grazing patterns as they related to travel distance to water with very little grazing taking place beyond 1000 ft from water.

Since we moved to Idaho and heat stress is virtually non-exisitent, I am very comfortable with a quarter mile travel distance to water on irrigated pasture. Beyond that distance, the tools used for temporary fencing become cumbersome. To me that is more of a limitation than travel distance, per se.

On rangeland, use patterns indicate travel distance to water beyond 1/2 mile typically shows a utilization gradient. The gradient does not become meaningful until the distance approaches a mile. Thus, if you had water developments every 2 miles on rangeland, the grazing efficiency would be close to optimal. Steepness of terrain is, of course, another factor affecting these distances.

Going back to the 600 to 900 ft guideline... If you had 800 acres divided into twenty 40-acre paddocks with a water tank at the center of each 40-acre paddock, the cattle would be within 900 ft of the tank over 90% of the time. In our part of MO, 800 acres properly managed would have supported 400 pairs year around so you could afford to spend quite a bit on water developments.

Hope this clears the air a bit concerning travel distance to water.

No matter the source I've NEVER had trouble with my cows drinking regularly ! :tiphat: