Dead Calves in Heifers

[ozarkbulls]

Ok, these heifers are Holsteins, but I figured bovine is bovine in this case. Here's the strange scenario:
7 virgin heifers, about 3 weeks to actual due date. 4 had started to calve, but were in distress. Too many for 2 guys to deal with, so we called the vet. No feet feeling, only head, vet tried to grab legs and turn up, but discovered the calf was dead. Apparently for a while, mainly because of the smell, if you know what I mean. This happened to 4 out of 7, so far. None of the calves were in actual birth position, and all were dead about 3-5 days according to the vet. He has no idea what would cause this. BTW, 3 out of the 4 heifers died shortly after. What's scary is theres 3 more due to calve in the next week or so, hopefully this is a strange occurence?
Obviously these heifers have been well taken care of, all vaccinations, etc. Raised on the dairy, etc.
Anybody got any ideas?

 

[Angus Cowman]

first off they weren't VIRGIN heifers if the were bred
could be a number of possibilities but your Vet was their he shuld be able to tell ya more than we can
I think I would of had the hfrs and or the calves posted that would have been the best way to find out
I would imagine the hfrs died from being Toxic with the dead calf in them

 

[Isomade]

first off they weren't VIRGIN heifers if the were bred
could be a number of possibilities but your Vet was their he shuld be able to tell ya more than we can
I think I would of had the hfrs and or the calves posted that would have been the best way to find out
I would imagine the hfrs died from being Toxic with the dead calf in them

And I would have him check the others asap to see if they are carrying a live calf. No sence in losing the other cows too if they have a dead calf as well.

 

[ozarkbulls]

Yeah, OK, they weren't "virgin" heifers...First-calf-heifers...Ok..
they're not mine I just work there, but the boss today said he doesn't want to spend any money on postops, or checking any of the rest of them, so I guess he's a big gambler? The vet just shrugged his shoulders, and seemed disinterested in the whole affair.
I was just curious of what possibly could be the cause, and there's way too many smart folks here to pass up asking a question.

 

[hillsdown]

Yeah, OK, they weren't "virgin" heifers...First-calf-heifers...Ok..
they're not mine I just work there, but the boss today said he doesn't want to spend any money on postops, or checking any of the rest of them, so I guess he's a big gambler? The vet just shrugged his shoulders, and seemed disinterested in the whole affair.
I was just curious of what possibly could be the cause, and there's way too many smart folks here to pass up asking a question.

If the owner does not give a shytt then the vet won't either as most have been through so much crap with these people that they are lucky they even have a vet left to call. You will have more deaths unless you can get these animals posted and get some samples sent to a lab as well as get the feed tested. I cannot even imagine working in such a place ,good luck .

 

[Suzie Q]

I know lepto (short for a longer word) causes dead calves. Not sure if before or after birth, but we vaccinate against it because we have told it woud be rife here because of flooding.

 

[ozarkbulls]

Yeah, OK, they weren't "virgin" heifers...First-calf-heifers...Ok..
they're not mine I just work there, but the boss today said he doesn't want to spend any money on postops, or checking any of the rest of them, so I guess he's a big gambler? The vet just shrugged his shoulders, and seemed disinterested in the whole affair.
I was just curious of what possibly could be the cause, and there's way too many smart folks here to pass up asking a question.

If the owner does not give a shytt then the vet won't either as most have been through so much crap with these people that they are lucky they even have a vet left to call. You will have more deaths unless you can get these animals posted and get some samples sent to a lab as well as get the feed tested. I cannot even imagine working in such a place ,good luck .

Honstly, the dairy is about "buns-up" right now, so owner's attitude is one of disinterest.
All feed is always tested on a regular basis, as I'm in charge of that, so I don't think that's a problem. This isn't really my "department" there, just happened to be there on a skeleton crew day, and took interest in the situation. Got enough of my own to do up there. I guess if he doesn't care, I'll do some research on my own just for personal satisfaction.

 

[DavisBeefmasters]

#1 -- good for you for trying to figure it out (as you can tell, some folks wouldn't take the effort)

#2 -- if the calves were dead up to a week inside, they may have been too decomposed for a helpful post mortem anyway

#3 -- Questions:
a. Feed changed at all?
b. Weather changed at all lately?
c. Have these girls recently been put together with the herd versus being kept seperate (head butting, pecking order stuff)
d. Were they vaccinated for lepto?
e. How are your ticks this year?
f. do they have any exposure to eat something other than the intended feed? (like pine needles)

Good luck and sometimes you just never know "why".

 

[hillsdown]

http://www.respe.net/en/system/files/in ... tality.pdf

Try this link, it is full of information. Good luck .

 

[Betty]

Were they huge calves? Wondering if maybe they'd all been calving awhile and no one noticed, they just couldn't deliver?
Were they all just moved, the pecking order stuff (ramming on the mother who is heavily pregnant) that can kill a calf in utero--or just hauled? Did they get overheated?
Diseases - lepto, BVD maybe, maybe a clostridia?
I'd be thinking trauma myself.

 

[hillrancher]

If I was betting would say the heffers are not big enough to calve or bred to the wrong bull. The mothers are dying from infection. It is very hard to prevent infection in this situation.

 

[hillsdown]

If I was betting would say the heffers are not big enough to calve or bred to the wrong bull. The mothers are dying from infection. It is very hard to prevent infection in this situation.

I interpreted the VIRGIN comment to mean that they were never bull exposed but were AI'd ,therefore a calving date would be known and the heifers were most likely moved to a calving pen near their due date to be watched. THAT IS if this is a dairy that is run properly. ;-)

 

[ozarkbulls]

If I was betting would say the heffers are not big enough to calve or bred to the wrong bull. The mothers are dying from infection. It is very hard to prevent infection in this situation.

I interpreted the VIRGIN comment to mean that they were never bull exposed but were AI'd ,therefore a calving date would be known and the heifers were most likely moved to a calving pen near their due date to be watched. THAT IS if this is a dairy that is run properly. ;-)

That is correct, all AI'd, moved into the calving pen about 2 weeks prior to due date. Calves were small, as usual for first calf. Computer matched AI-ing.
I'm leaning toward Lepto, although everything is vaccinated. Weather has been opressive the last week or two, may have an effect?
Hopefully this was an isolated event, because there's 63 due to calve in the next month and a half.
thanks all for your input, and links.

 

[Suzie Q]

On another thread in this forum it was mentioned that if they are moved to a yard and not able to walk around properly that the calves do not turn to the right position and are breeched.

 

[hillsdown]

On another thread in this forum it was mentioned that if they are moved to a yard and not able to walk around properly that the calves do not turn to the right position and are breeched.

I don't know who said that Suzie but they are wrong.
LMAO too funny .. :lol:

 

[dun]

On another thread in this forum it was mentioned that if they are moved to a yard and not able to walk around properly that the calves do not turn to the right position and are breeched.

I don't know who said that Suzie but they are wrong.
LMAO too funny .. :lol:

I've heard the same thing. It has something to do (theoretically) with lack of exercise. That said, I knew of a Holstein bull many years ago that almost everyone of his calves came backwards.

 

[hillsdown]

On another thread in this forum it was mentioned that if they are moved to a yard and not able to walk around properly that the calves do not turn to the right position and are breeched.

I don't know who said that Suzie but they are wrong.
LMAO too funny .. :lol:

I've heard the same thing. It has something to do (theoretically) with lack of exercise. That said, I knew of a Holstein bull many years ago that almost everyone of his calves came backwards.

Then every dairy is doomed ,well all the good ones here anyways . :lol:
If that had any relevance it would be due to the feed ration that the heifers are given. BUT I still call :bs: .

 

[Suzie Q]

It was mentioned in this thread. viewtopic.php?f=19&t=70535&p=829794&hilit=backwards#p829794

If every calf is coming out backwards I would say something is majorly wrong and I don't think I would be blaming the bull. JMHO.