Data centers

[Travlr]

They will be deductions... you know better. People are signing up to put themselves out of a job.

Go read elons stuff on where the future is headed. He is at least honest about it.

Then we are going to have to change our thinking. Certainly the politicians are not going to stand for a reduction in the money they love to spend.

 

[504RP]

Elons
humanoid robot is the Optimus, with commercial sales to the public expected to launch as soon as 2027. The robot is projected to be priced between $20,000 and $30,000 once it reaches full mass production Capabilities: Designed to eventually do "anything," Optimus is projected to help with routine manufacturing tasks, household chores, and heavy industrial jobs. It is being engineered to perform delicate tasks like folding clothes and cracking eggs, as well as factory operations

One of the biggest issues with this and most of other new developments in technology is. It’s something that I would think at least 80 % of the population on earth will have the ability to understand and will not be able to work on like today’s modern tractors and other equipment that is controlled by electronics and other technology. Yes all of these discoveries are spectacular and great discoveries.

But they are also useless if you cannot get things like these repaired when they break down. And it’s not working out quite like it needs to. Sure you can buy warranties from a dealership when you buy that new impressive tractor or whatever type of implements you might buy that’s loaded with technology from one end to the other. But what I am finding out is a roll of toilet paper is worth more than the warranties that you get because when crunch time comes to take it in and get it fixed. Is when the night mare begins in a lot of cases. Because they don’t always have a clue how to work on the stuff. Most of what they do is part swapping of those high dollar on board computers, sensors and so on because the technology is above most people’s ability to understand and learn. And even if someone dose lean the technology for something. The manufacturers will come out with something entirely different that you have to start over with.

 

[Mrcopier]

One of the biggest issues with this and most of other new developments in technology is. It’s something that I would think at least 80 % of the population on earth will have the ability to understand and will not be able to work on like today’s modern tractors and other equipment that is controlled by electronics and other technology. Yes all of these discoveries are spectacular and great discoveries.

But they are also useless if you cannot get things like these repaired when they break down. And it’s not working out quite like it needs to. Sure you can buy warranties from a dealership when you buy that new impressive tractor or whatever type of implements you might buy that’s loaded with technology from one end to the other. But what I am finding out is a roll of toilet paper is worth more than the warranties that you get because when crunch time comes to take it in and get it fixed. Is when the night mare begins in a lot of cases. Because they don’t always have a clue how to work on the stuff. Most of what they do is part swapping of those high dollar on board computers, sensors and so on because the technology is above most people’s ability to understand and learn. And even if someone dose lean the technology for something. The manufacturers will come out with something entirely different that you have to start over with.

Everything is like that, I own a copier dealership and we used to be able to swap out components on boards now you can’t it’s the whole board. TVs just about everything has gone that way. So what will happen is there will be mobile technicians that come to your house and repair it.

 

[Travlr]

Everything is like that, I own a copier dealership and we used to be able to swap out components on boards now you can’t it’s the whole board. TVs just about everything has gone that way. So what will happen is there will be mobile ROBOT technicians that come to your house and repair it.

Fixed it for you.

 

[504RP]

Everything is like that, I own a copier dealership and we used to be able to swap out components on boards now you can’t it’s the whole board. TVs just about everything has gone that way. So what will happen is there will be mobile technicians that come to your house and repair it.

A lot of the time the technicians aren’t able to fix it. Repairing ag equipment, automobiles and things of that nature that are controlled by electronics in my opinion would be different than office equipment like printers or office computers because worse scenarios on items like that you can’t pin point what the cause of whatever is the cause for it not to work would be to just replace it with a new one. Probably more cost efficient to just replace it than to spend the time to try fixing it.

You take a farmers 100, 200 or $ 300,000 tractor that the farmer has to have in order to farm with. A technician has to fix it. The dealership the farmer bought it from isn’t going to want to replace something like that even if they can’t figure out the cause of the problem that is in the electrical system of it. I heard of several farmers that I know personally who has had that very thing happen. That’s what I am saying. Electronics has its place but I personally don’t think its place should be in equipment that people can’t do without to farm with.

 

[Texas Ranch Hand]

I don’t know, he is pretty innovative. He can parallel park a rocket, plant circuit into peoples head that can overcome health issues, like walking, seeing, and he isn’t the only one developing robots that can do simple house chores. Probably about 10 different companies including China. It’s not that far fetched, and he is trying to develop data centers in space which would make a lot of people happy

Obviously Elon is not from this planet. He’s amazing what he does and the ideas he has. From Tesla to Starlink to SpaceX.

 

[Mrcopier]

A lot of the time the technicians aren’t able to fix it. Repairing ag equipment, automobiles and things of that nature that are controlled by electronics in my opinion would be different than office equipment like printers or office computers because worse scenarios on items like that you can’t pin point what the cause of whatever is the cause for it not to work would be to just replace it with a new one. Probably more cost efficient to just replace it than to spend the time to try fixing it.

You take a farmers 100, 200 or $ 300,000 tractor that the farmer has to have in order to farm with. A technician has to fix it. The dealership the farmer bought it from isn’t going to want to replace something like that even if they can’t figure out the cause of the problem that is in the electrical system of it. I heard of several farmers that I know personally who has had that very thing happen. That’s what I am saying. Electronics has its place but I personally don’t think its place should be in equipment that people can’t do without to farm with.

Comparing tractors to copiers is apples to oranges. However you don’t just replace a 20-$30,000 color copier. You repair it. They aren’t them same but repairs can be made on most anything

 

[504RP]

Comparing tractors to copiers is apples to oranges. However you don’t just replace a 20-$30,000 color copier. You repair it. They aren’t them same but repairs can be made on most anything

That’s what I am saying. When I am saying I don’t believe complex types of technology should be used in certain circumstances like farm equipment is what I am talking about. When it’s being used in ways like that. I see it as a way more less to gain control over consumers. You sell a buyer something they can’t work on. You have taken away their ability to do something that a big majority of farmers are capable of doing and would choose to do themselves for a lot of reasons. If that tractor breaks down they might need to get it back up and running immediately to harvest their crop. And that peace of equipment is loaded with electronics that only the dealerships has access to the schematics needed to be able to work on it with. That’s a type of control. Big difference between office equipment and even people’s ability to maintain their own work vehicles and it shouldn’t be that way. That’s what a communist government wants. That’s supposed to be the difference between what the United States stands for compared to countries like China and Russia. But the United States is getting more and more like these countries all of the time but are just sly in how they are introducing it.

 

[504RP]

I have no complaint whatsoever what they do with office equipment. I have very little use for it what so ever. I am a farmer. I need important equipment. I have a brain that I can use to cover anything that pertains to office equipment.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

And that peace of equipment is loaded with electronics that only the dealerships has access to the schematics needed to be able to work on it with.

What equipment do you have that only the dealer has access to? In my experience all the manufactures will sell you the diagnostic software/hardware as well as all the tech publications and manuals you could want.

Is it very spendy? Yes, but it is available.

Many manufactures software has been "hacked" so it can be ready
with 3rd party hardware.

 

[mwj]

Nobody wants to pay for the ''tech'' but most like the benefits. Autostear is the first that comes to mind. Farmers spend a quarter of a million on a planter and it does not have row markers.

 

[504RP]

What equipment do you have that only the dealer has access to? In my experience all the manufactures will sell you the diagnostic software/hardware as well as all the tech publications and manuals you could want.

Is it very spendy? Yes, but it is available.

Many manufactures software has been "hacked" so it can be ready
with 3rd party hardware.

I personally have not had that problem yet. My newest tractor is a 2005 NH TL90. I know of 2 people that have tried getting Schematics to work on late model John deers.

I watched a documentary about a group of missionaries who were trying to help villagers in Africa learn to farm and one of there biggest issues was the abilities of the locals that were native to the area that were the ones who worked on what vehicles and equipment they did have available to them were able to work on the older equipment they had. Equipment they had some how managed to aquire decades back like 60 and 70 model trucks and tractors.

So the missionaries solution was to find every 8 and 9N ford tractors they could find. They were simple to work on.

When I got out of high school I took
two years at a vocational trade school. The first year I was there the school still
taught how to work on TV’s and radio’s but was incorporating semiconductor technology because tube technology was phased out. But they still were just starting to teach students how to work on microprocessors which is the mini computers that controls most of the components that are used in mechanical equipment today. Anything from automated robots on assembly lines to tractors and about every late model vehecil on the road today.

I graduated at the top of my class at that Votec school and took one semester of electronics at a college. And I can tell you from experience. It doesn’t matter even if you can get a schematic for a peace of equipment. Because more than likely the schematic you do get won’t be a current document. Or have the specific information whoever is working on it would need. IF the person has been taught how to use that information. And even if that person is really good and knowledgeable of reading schematics. More than likely the stuff he has learned is outdated.

 

[504RP]

Nobody wants to pay for the ''tech'' but most like the benefits. Autostear is the first that comes to mind. Farmers spend a quarter of a million on a planter and it does not have row markers.

How many farmers do you figure can afford to or even those that can afford too want to spend a quarter of a million on Autostear that are cattle farmers ? I have never heard of a cattle farmer using any kind of planter needing row markers.

I am glad I am not one of them. Because I dang sure couldn’t afford a quarter of a million for no Autostear and even if I could I would be to tight to turn that much money loose on it.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I personally have not had that problem yet. My newest tractor is a 2005 NH TL90. I know of 2 people that have tried getting Schematics to work on late model John deers.

Then those people need to talk to a different people. I have a good independant mechanic friend that works almost exclusively on Deere forestry/construction equipment as well as the little bit of ag equipment in this area and mother Deere is willing to sell him all the hardware/software as well as schematics, publications, tech manuals, theory of operations, etc that he could ever need.

Is modern equipment as easy to work on as an 8N? No.

How many folks in this country would be willing to spend a few thousand hours a year riding around on an 8N in a production ag setting? Not many.

 

[JustSteve]

And my question is WHY DO WE NEED THEM??? Who benefits from data centers? Who pays for them? And why does anyone need to hoard information forever in storage lockers that demand maintenance and have an unending cost? LLMs and the bots prioritize their information by popular availability and don't use educated authority or experience, so we can't even depend on the information we get from them. And I'm not convinced they will do any better with larger capacities.

We do, because our society heavily relies on them, a lot more than we think. Consider this: we buy cloud storage to save all the pics on our phone so free up storage, we ask chatgpt for something that we can google ourselves, payment processing and pretty much everything digital that's happening on the internet. I'm not standing behind the idea that we need more datacenters, I'm just trying to explain that we rely on them a lot and the more we rely on them, the more we'll need. With that said, one thing that I can't quite understand is the following (hope it's still on topic, but please let me know if I steered away from it):
I think I remember reading something about netherlands having problem with methane from livestock and proposed some radical approach to cut the number down. Someone please correct me if this is wrong. Now, if their government wants to get rid of livestock becuase it's good for the environment, why aren't they against the idea of several proposed datacenters?

 

[Mrcopier]

I have no complaint whatsoever what they do with office equipment. I have very little use for it what so ever. I am a farmer. I need important equipment. I have a brain that I can use to cover anything that pertains to office equipment.

I guess you use carbon paper, you obviously don’t have a need for office equipment or you would have some

 

[Travlr]

We do, because our society heavily relies on them, a lot more than we think. Consider this: we buy cloud storage to save all the pics on our phone so free up storage, we ask chatgpt for something that we can google ourselves, payment processing and pretty much everything digital that's happening on the internet. I'm not standing behind the idea that we need more datacenters, I'm just trying to explain that we rely on them a lot and the more we rely on them, the more we'll need. With that said, one thing that I can't quite understand is the following (hope it's still on topic, but please let me know if I steered away from it):
I think I remember reading something about netherlands having problem with methane from livestock and proposed some radical approach to cut the number down. Someone please correct me if this is wrong. Now, if their government wants to get rid of livestock becuase it's good for the environment, why aren't they against the idea of several proposed datacenters?

I appreciate your answer... but I would suggest that the "we" you are talking about is not the general public for the most part. I'd say the "we" is people that sell us things or want to store information to be used against our interests... and they want "us" (the general public) to pay for their hoarding of data.
The people benefiting from data centers have no respect for those that have no use for them. I think they are surprised at the backlash and are now regrouping to try and force the issue. In this case the public is wanting to KNOW and the true answers would not go over well.

 

[504RP]

I guess you use carbon paper, you obviously don’t have a need for office equipment or you would have some

You’re right about that. I worked in an office for 34 1/2 years. Had two desk top computers and printer. Hated using them every time I did. I got along fine before I ever laid hands on either of them and get along just fine now that I don’t have to use them. And I don’t use carbon paper either.

I

 

[504RP]

Then those people need to talk to a different people. I have a good independant mechanic friend that works almost exclusively on Deere forestry/construction equipment as well as the little bit of ag equipment in this area and mother Deere is willing to sell him all the hardware/software as well as schematics, publications, tech manuals, theory of operations, etc that he could ever need.

Is modern equipment as easy to work on as an 8N? No.

How many folks in this country would be willing to spend a few thousand hours a year riding around on an 8N in a production ag setting? Not many.

Wouldn’t bother me to use a 8N for some things. Nobody will convince me that a tractor comparable to any of the tractors on the Market can’t be built that is equally as good if not better than one loaded with electronics. Actually I think they could easily build a better tractor without electronics. But that’s not what manufacturers want to do. They want want to sell you something most people can’t work on themselves.

How many people in this country do you think had rather buy a peace of equipment wether it be ag or a passenger can without the electronics so that they could fix it themselves without having to be knowledgeable in computers and other complex technology ?

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

How many people do you actually think want to fix their own anything? They want their vehicle to have all the creature comforts of home, while they cruise from home to work to the store while they scroll Tik Tok and ask AI questions. Most people don't own tools and have no desire too.

The percent of the population that would want some dinosaur vehicle with no electronics (fuel injection, backup cameras, etc) is really quite small. Heck most people specifically option their vehicle with MORE fancy tech options than comes standard.

If you want a tractor with no electronics then good for you. Me and lots of other farmers will take ours with a comfy AC'd cab, power shift transmission, shuttle shift, fingertip hydraulic controls, etc (all fancy black magic electronic technology) so that after 10 hours in the seat I don't feel like I went 10 rounds with Mike Tyson.