Customer Issue

[greatgerts]

Ok, this might be a little long, but want to get some opinions on what to do (I know what will probably end up happening, but want to see if there is something else to do).
Last June, I sold a yearling bull to a guy that lives about a mile down the road from us. Guy had 8 females that was going to be with this bull. Said he had some reservations because a buddy of his had bought a bull from us and it was no good ("buddy" never informed us of this, and we had sold him in 2008). Fast forward to last night, so 296 days, I get a call saying at first, the bull isn't gaining any weight. Guy says he may weigh 800lbs. Asks if I'd come look at him next week. I said that is fine. Next, he tells me that he doesn't think any of the cows got bred, and by now that they should be calving. I told him they should be close (he didn't turn the bull out for a couple of weeks when he got him either). He then says that maybe 2 of them are bred.

We told him last summer we would stand behind the bull if there were any issues, and he said he would be able to tell if the cows were still coming in heat.
We will probably end up purchasing the bull back, but would it be wrong of us to have him get a vet out to preg check the cows before we would do anything to make sure? I just have this feeling that we are going to have to buy back a bull and he will end up with a full calf crop.

 

[dun]

Have the vet preg them. If they are all open you pay, if they aren;t he pays

 

[greatgerts]

Have the vet preg them. If they are all open you pay, if they aren;t he pays

That is kind of what I am leaning towards, with myself in attendance when they are checked.

 

[Son of Butch]

Have the vet preg them. If they are all open you pay, if they aren;t he pays

That is kind of what I am leaning towards, with myself in attendance when they are checked.

Sounds completely fair to me.

 

[Ol' 243]

If he only weighs 800 lbs then he might be more worried about getting something to eat than screwin'

 

[Aaron]

Did you have a BSE done on the bull before you sold him?

 

[Bigfoot]

I believe that bull is their bull after this long.

 

[Ebenezer]

If they starved him and the heifers they can keep him. Assurances need to be both ways on sales.

 

[Craig Miller]

You're gonna lose either way. If you buy it back he will tell the whole country about how you sale bad bulls. If you don't buy it back he will tell the whole country about how you stiffed him with a bad bull. You lose either way.

 

[Rafter S]

It's difficult to answer without more information. You said you'd promised to stand behind the bull if there were any issues. I don't really know what that means, and if you weren't more specific at the time of the sale you might just have to bite the bullet and give the guy his money back.

I doubt if there are any breeders out there that will guarantee a bull for more than a year, and with some of them if the bull had a good BSE when they sold him them he's yours, end of story.

Again, that all should have been spelled out at the time of the sale. Maybe it was?

 

[Ky hills]

Had a very similar issue to that years ago. This was back before BSE was a standard practice, folks only did that when they thought they had a problem. I sold a yearling Charolais bull, a few months later, not sure exactly, got a call from a vet saying that the bull didn't pass a BSE. I knew and trusted the vet, so when talking to the buyer, I said that I had another bull that I had bought, that I would switch out with him. When I got the bull in question back, he was thin as a rail. The next year the same buyer, had the same issue with a bull he bought from another Charolais farm, and theirs was also returned in thin shape.
Now a days I won't even think about selling or buying a bull without a BSE.
On side note, there are some folks out there that will try to pull you for what ever they can. Had a buyer one time, want me to buy back the bull after about 3 months when his cows were bred. As far as your customer saying someone down the road had had trouble with a bull from you, it could just be a ploy to try to get one at a cheaper price or trying to get you to accommodate him .

 

[Nesikep]

There's deep water on either side.. I'd DEFINITELY get the vet out, and have the vet give his opinion on the condition of the bull and the heifers.. if the vet says it's owner negligence, I'd tell him to go stuff it where the sun don't shine.. he can tell who he wants about me, all the people he tells are probably going to be more people like him.

How heavy was the bull when you sold him? Hard to believe a nearly 2 year old bull would weigh less than a heavy fall steer unless he's been totally starved to death.

If you give in to the guy, you're setting yourself up as a sucker.. though if you like the genetics behind the bull perhaps buying him back and putting him on some good feed he'd be usable at home as a clean up bull this year, and then sold?

As for paying the vet.. I'd bet that if you say "loser pays" he'll just shut up and keep the bull.. Won't stop him from badmouthing, but from what I understand he's going to be doing that either way and there's no way out for you.

 

[callmefence]

It's difficult to answer without more information. You said you'd promised to stand behind the bull if there were any issues. I don't really know what that means, and if you weren't more specific at the time of the sale you might just have to bite the bullet and give the guy his money back.

I doubt if there are any breeders out there that will guarantee a bull for more than a year, and with some of them if the bull had a good BSE when they sold him them he's yours, end of story.

Again, that all should have been spelled out at the time of the sale. Maybe it was?

I think rafter said it perfectly. The bulls I've bought guarantee meant the bull would pass a bse. Maybe if the bull lacks all ambition to breed you should stand behind it. But You have no control over how he cared for the herd. It sounds like not very well.
You should look at the situation with a open mind and do what you believe is Right for you and him. I disagree with you lose either way. In doing business it's not about the problems you have , but how you handle them.

 

[greatgerts]

Did you have a BSE done on the bull before you sold him?

We did not. He was 13 months old when he purchased the bull, and I told him it would be another month or 2 before he'd be ready to breed. He was ok with that. I should've done a BSE on him, but just didn't for the price we sold him at.

 

[greatgerts]

It's difficult to answer without more information. You said you'd promised to stand behind the bull if there were any issues. I don't really know what that means, and if you weren't more specific at the time of the sale you might just have to bite the bullet and give the guy his money back.

I doubt if there are any breeders out there that will guarantee a bull for more than a year, and with some of them if the bull had a good BSE when they sold him them he's yours, end of story.

Again, that all should have been spelled out at the time of the sale. Maybe it was?

I think rafter said it perfectly. The bulls I've bought guarantee meant the bull would pass a bse. Maybe if the bull lacks all ambition to breed you should stand behind it. But You have no control over how he cared for the herd. It sounds like not very well.
You should look at the situation with a open mind and do what you believe is Right for you and him. I disagree with you lose either way. In doing business it's not about the problems you have , but how you handle them.

I am going to look at him today. The bull was a smaller framed bull, but weighed over 900 when I sold him. Each time I had questioned him, basically repeated what he had said, his answer changed some. My "stand behind him" was for semen quality. I'm not sure on the care of his cows, or if they have ever been vaccinated. I am also planning on looking at his cows to see their condition and I'll ask about herd health.

 

[Aaron]

Did you have a BSE done on the bull before you sold him?

We did not. He was 13 months old when he purchased the bull, and I told him it would be another month or 2 before he'd be ready to breed. He was ok with that. I should've done a BSE on him, but just didn't for the price we sold him at.

Be prepared to pay the piper then. You have nothing to stand on if he decides to take you to court.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Yep bse is the only way to go when selling Bulls I learned that lesson the hard way as well.
After that I handed them a copy of the bse papers and when he got on the trailer he was yours.

 

[dun]

A BSE even at 10 or 11 months is well worth the cost

 

[texast]

Also considering the fact he has some Brahman in him he may have matured sexually later than say other breeds. That could have caused a delay in him breeding the heifers. Now he's of age so he should be breeding at this point. I hope it works out for you.

 

[Jessica06]

We are working up a guarantee in writing before we sell any more bulls. We've been blessed with great customers thus far and haven't had any train wrecks, but we've had a near-miss every now and then! Taking a virgin bull home is like driving a new car off the lot. If he doesn't work out it'd better be for a darn good reason. Once they go on cows that's some serious depreciation.