Cross Bred Hereford Bull

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Brandonm22

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Ok, I am always happy to see people making money marketing bulls; but this one has me confused.

With as many sources as there are for Hereford genetics, why is anyone buying semen from a Hereford cross bull??

http://bullbarn.com/herfepd.asp?ID=163

Are we adding the Maine influence to win ribbons at shows??? I am not knocking the bull. He may sire good calves; but if I am going to the trouble to AI a cow I would prefer more predictability.
 

MF135

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Brandonm22":1nr8d2u8 said:
Ok, I am always happy to see people making money marketing bulls; but this one has me confused.

With as many sources as there are for Hereford genetics, why is anyone buying semen from a Hereford cross bull??

http://bullbarn.com/herfepd.asp?ID=163

Are we adding the Maine influence to win ribbons at shows??? I am not knocking the bull. He may sire good calves; but if I am going to the trouble to AI a cow I would prefer more predictability.
What's even more ironic is that since this bull isn't a main-stream crossbred with a marketed name such as Balancer, Lim-Flex, or F1 SimAngus, people regard the cross as taboo and question the validity of the epd's.
 

cowtex

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Have you ever noticed what the champion breed steer brings at Fort Worth and Houston? It 's not just the Hereford look a likes.
 

dun

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MF135":1ijwfhov said:
Brandonm22":1ijwfhov said:
Ok, I am always happy to see people making money marketing bulls; but this one has me confused.

With as many sources as there are for Hereford genetics, why is anyone buying semen from a Hereford cross bull??

http://bullbarn.com/herfepd.asp?ID=163

Are we adding the Maine influence to win ribbons at shows??? I am not knocking the bull. He may sire good calves; but if I am going to the trouble to AI a cow I would prefer more predictability.
What's even more ironic is that since this bull isn't a main-stream crossbred with a marketed name such as Balancer, Lim-Flex, or F1 SimAngus, people regard the cross as taboo and question the validity of the epd's.
Since all he'll be used for is beauty contests what difference does EPDs make. You could probably breed a maine to a longhorn and sell a bull from the breeding to the show folks that want to take a chance on stepping out of the mainstream.
 

Gators Rule

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not a thing wrong with it... Some grow for dough, some grow for show, and some go broke... :) not a bad bull. Heat Wave is probably the most highly sought after bull in the country for the show folks. This is a nice looking son of his.
 

DOC HARRIS

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The indicated purposes in these posts that the bull is to be used for "beauty contests" is exactly correct. The resulting progeny will very probably be used for 4H or FFA or Junior Association Showing classes. The "BU$INE$$" side of the beef production industry receives little concern or consideration when selecting seedstock for the youngsters for learning responsibility, management skills, and the accepted methods of preparing, primping, showing, and "hair-curling" their calves. It is an entirely different side of the beef business, and has little practical protocols in the PROFIT making end of the business.

On the OTHER hand, by utilizing a cross bred bull as a herd sire, one is able to optimize cross breeding Heterosis (or hybrid vigor) in one fell swoop by usisng an F1 progeny as the herd sire. Then HIS offspring could be used on still a third breed in the cow and have three breeds in the mix with just one mating. It is a management technic.

DOC HARRIS
 

bigbull338

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theres a big business in producing an selling club steer calves.if you get a top herd of club calf producing cows.the steers will sale for $2000 to $5000 a hd.so they are hitting the goldmine.
 

VanC

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I have a couple of questions.

First off, most people rave about the advantages of using crossbred cows and with good reason. But when someone mentions crossbred bulls, we hear about how unpredictable they are. Why are crossbred bulls any more unpredictable than crossbred cows?

Second, it seems to me that a Hereford/Maine or any other crossbred bull shouldn't be any more unpredictable than a Balancer or a Limflex or a SimAngus. No matter what you call them, they're all crossbred bulls, after all. None of them have been developed into composite breeds such as Braford, Santa Gertrudis, etc. So my question is: why the difference? Why are some crossbred bulls accepted and some are not?
 

dun

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VanC":3nu6hcwy said:
I have a couple of questions.

First off, most people rave about the advantages of using crossbred cows and with good reason. But when someone mentions crossbred bulls, we hear about how unpredictable they are. Why are crossbred bulls any more unpredictable than crossbred cows?
I wouldn;t say less predictable I would say have a greater impact. A cow has a calf a bull sires a bunch of calves
 

Commercialfarmer

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The method to the madness of using crossbred cows and purebred bulls is an attempt to obtain increased fertility, along with increased consistency. What animal contributes more to the calf crop, 1 cow that contributes 50% of the genes of 1 calf, or 1 bull that contributes 50% of the genes to 20, 30, or 40 calves. So if a bull battery (closely related or consistent in type) can consistently stamp their calves with a fairly consistent look, it will make a producer money in the ring.

A crossbred bull will not increase fertility of the calf crop. However, it is a very well known fact that crossbred cows are more fertile than pure bred cows.


I am sure there are other uses, but I can see a use of some of the balancers, sim-angus, etc, to give a lower percentage of continental influence to some british based cattle- 25% vs 50%. But, when mated to a cross bred cow, the consistency of the calf crop will not be as high as a linebred bull.
 

dun

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Commercialfarmer":343chmha said:
Sorry Dun,

I forgot to hit submit earlier and you answered it in way fewer words in the mean time.
I may have used fewer words but you explained it a lot better
 

novatech

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Commercialfarmer":1nuxiwj8 said:
A crossbred bull will not increase fertility of the calf crop. However, it is a very well known fact that crossbred cows are more fertile than pure bred cows.


quote]
Why?

Here is something I found on crossbred bulls.

An alternative to get to a similar point of capturing a substantial level of heterosis in the cow herd and blending breeds for the strengths and to mask weakness, is to utilize hybrid or composite bulls. In general the term hybrid is used to describe crossbred parents and composites are the result of mating among crossbred parents. By utilizing crossbred bulls the herd can be managed very simply breeding as if purebred without a need to segregate cows by sire breed or sourcing outside replacements. After a period of years the breed percentages represented in the composite will stabilize and heterosis will be sustained at about 50% of potential for a 2 breed composite and 60 to 75% for a four breed composite depending on the percentage individual breeds are represented in the four breed composite.

While there are concerns and constraints associated with using hybrid and composite bulls, availability and use seems to be increasing significantly with research data, breeder promotion, and advancing genetic evaluation technology. Many bull sales in the northern plains now feature hybrid bulls, often finding strong market acceptance by producers. Breeding research with composites at the Meat Animal Research Center have found little differences between purebred and three MARC composite lines for variation in measured reproduction, production or carcass traits. Data collected on composite sired calves at the university on Nebraska teaching herd has further illustrated the value of blending of breed types in hitting both marbling and yield targets of finished steers, with 87% USDA choice or better with 66% yield grade 1 and 2.

The confounding effect of heterosis on an individual bull’s performance record and the lack of accurate EPD’s has and continues to be a concern. The adoption of multiple breed evaluations and cooperation amongst some breed associations to produce EPDs on a single base with appropriate adjustments for heterosis and utilization of genetic information on purebred parents are moving forward and will make it easier for genetic evaluation of hybrids.
Taken from;
http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/NorthCentralREC/ ... ding-bulls
 

Commercialfarmer

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My statement was regarding the production of calves (the fertility of the bull's semen), not their fertility on the subsequent generation. Could have been worded better. I have not read the rest of ur quote but will shortly.

Edited to add:

Novatech,

The article is an opinion of the author or authors. There is a difference between a peer reviewed and accepted study and an article based on someone's opinion. I think it is dangerous to take anything with a University label on it as fact. To me it is like listening to every ad on the t.v. having 2 out of 3 doctors think our "product" is the best. If all the doctors were added up, I think 7 out of 4 would be accounted for.

More specifically, I think the discussion regarding the extension article has already been had and could be continued on that thread. I didn't intend to get it going here.
 

cbcr

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Composite bulls tend to have more longevity because of the direct hybrid vigor that they posses. Records have shown that composite bulls on average achieve a 30% increase in pregnancy rates over a 6 week breeding period than do pure-bred bulls.

Composite cattle DO have retained hybrid-vigor (heterosis), so calves sired by Composte bulls are affected.
 

VLS_GUY

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These Hereford marked Maine Anjou's are called Fakefords by the steerjocks.
I have seen some 7/8 Maine bulls will classic Hereford markings. The problem was that they did not put hereford markings (white face) on say a Angus cow. For this purpose the half Simmy half herford composite was much more successful.
 
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