Creep feed

[Amo]

OK TB, I'm slightly confused on your comment. Your saying that the milk production will increase, because the cow isn't losing body condition ? Thus if a better bcs, she will be able to produce the same amount of milk for a longer duration?

Idk if I quite see the angle there I guess. Milk production takes the highest amount of energy. So if the calf is drinking every drop mom can produce, creep or no creep...how would this keep any condition on a cow? Even if you put creep out at turn out time they are still going to drink all they can.

 

[True Grit Farms]

OK TB, I'm slightly confused on your comment. Your saying that the milk production will increase, because the cow isn't losing body condition ? Thus if a better bcs, she will be able to produce the same amount of milk for a longer duration?

Idk if I quite see the angle there I guess. Milk production takes the highest amount of energy. So if the calf is drinking every drop mom can produce, creep or no creep...how would this keep any condition on a cow? Even if you put creep out at turn out time they are still going to drink all they can.

Have you ever been to a dairy that produces milk to pay the bills?

 

[Ebenezer]

Cattle will eat creep from a feeder standing belly deep in grass.

That would be supplementing cows and not creep feeding calves. I do not think all are calling creep feeding what it is.

Study your market reports. There is a weight range that is great for prices. Above that weight, the price paid per pound is a great deal less. Around here, anything over 550 begins to pay a price per extra pound of something like $0.70 or less. That is what you will be earning if your calves can already hit the target.

I would not keep creep fed calves as breeders. They never do just quite right as breeders. If I were going to feed anything on the farm it would be first calf heifers prior to and during breeding and shortly after.

 

[Amo]

OK TB, I'm slightly confused on your comment. Your saying that the milk production will increase, because the cow isn't losing body condition ? Thus if a better bcs, she will be able to produce the same amount of milk for a longer duration?

Idk if I quite see the angle there I guess. Milk production takes the highest amount of energy. So if the calf is drinking every drop mom can produce, creep or no creep...how would this keep any condition on a cow? Even if you put creep out at turn out time they are still going to drink all they can.

Have you ever been to a dairy that produces milk to pay the bills?

There your feeding extra protein and energy to the cow. Guess you could creep cow and calf. I've never seen it done though.

Ebenzeer is correct. Here's my 2 cents on creep. If you calve real early, like say 3 to 4 month old calves at turn out on grass so they have plenty of frame when they be at 10 pounds of creep a day and sell right off the cow I think creeping is a no brainer. Get the calves to your sale weight sooner etc. Some cattle genetics won't get as fleshy as others. That's my problem with it, the calves always get fleshy on me. Plus my calves are about 2 months old when I go to pasture. Then I wean/background them till after the first of the year. I feel I can put about the same amount of pounds on post weaning using compensatory gain and controlling intake.

Everyone's program is different. Creep has its place. I'm a firm believer in a pound is a pound. If you can't control intake and they look like butterballs, your fighting yourself.

 

[Waterway65]

When I supplement my fall calves I put in a walk through gate. The calves get my best hay along with silage and mineral. Along with this I will hand feed 2 - 2/12 pounds of straight oats. This allows me to put the cows on rougher feed stock and prepares the calves for weaning. Cheap feed just didn't pencil out for me and not supplementing wasn't satisfactory either. By the time I wean them now they hardly show a noticeable effect.

 

[TexasBred]

OK TB, I'm slightly confused on your comment. Your saying that the milk production will increase, because the cow isn't losing body condition ? Thus if a better bcs, she will be able to produce the same amount of milk for a longer duration?

Idk if I quite see the angle there I guess. Milk production takes the highest amount of energy. So if the calf is drinking every drop mom can produce, creep or no creep...how would this keep any condition on a cow? Even if you put creep out at turn out time they are still going to drink all they can.

As I said the calf will always go to milk first and continue to keep her drained all day if he/she can. Feed contains both crude protein and calories. Better feed contains considerably more calories than cheap feed. The cow will produce whatever milk she is capable of producing which will be much more when fed daily, and excess calories will be used for maintenance. Loss of body condition is caused by a negative energy balance.

 

[Amo]

I realize things are done differently in different parts of the country. Here we use a feeder with gates that only let the calf into the creep feed. So all the cow gets is grass. If your suplementing a pair that's different than what I'm talking about.

 

[Williamsv]

My feeder is made to where only calves can get in. I creep feed them until they are old enough to sell. It really makes a difference in their weight. A few cows hang around and get every little bit that the calves knock out.

 

[skyhightree1]

My feeder is made to where only calves can get in. I creep feed them until they are old enough to sell. It really makes a difference in their weight. A few cows hang around and get every little bit that the calves knock out.

Ditto

 

[midTN_Brangusman]

We just got in the seedstock business last year and are raising registered bulls to sell around 15 to 20 months of age, I know that it may or may not pay off for commercial cattlemen, but I think in my situation it is a no brainer?

To the folks on the board that sell breeding bulls, do you creep feed? I have heard both sides that they will be heavier at weaning if creep fed and also the other side that they will gain more when put on feed if not creep fed.

 

[TexasBred]

Cattle will eat creep from a feeder standing belly deep in grass.

That would be supplementing cows and not creep feeding calves. I do not think all are calling creep feeding what it is.

Study your market reports. There is a weight range that is great for prices. Above that weight, the price paid per pound is a great deal less. Around here, anything over 550 begins to pay a price per extra pound of something like $0.70 or less. That is what you will be earning if your calves can already hit the target.

I would not keep creep fed calves as breeders. They never do just quite right as breeders. If I were going to feed anything on the farm it would be first calf heifers prior to and during breeding and shortly after.

Was responding to the poster who commented about supplementing cows. In this neck of the woods "creep" means free choice feed available 24/7 in feeders designed for the purpose.

 

[TexasBred]

We just got in the seedstock business last year and are raising registered bulls to sell around 15 to 20 months of age, I know that it may or may not pay off for commercial cattlemen, but I think in my situation it is a no brainer?

To the folks on the board that sell breeding bulls, do you creep feed? I have heard both sides that they will be heavier at weaning if creep fed and also the other side that they will gain more when put on feed if not creep fed.

The folks down here that sell registered stock feed the heck out of them. Makes for a beautiful bull but first 30 days on a new place and he loses most of that excess baggage.

 

[midTN_Brangusman]

We just got in the seedstock business last year and are raising registered bulls to sell around 15 to 20 months of age, I know that it may or may not pay off for commercial cattlemen, but I think in my situation it is a no brainer?

To the folks on the board that sell breeding bulls, do you creep feed? I have heard both sides that they will be heavier at weaning if creep fed and also the other side that they will gain more when put on feed if not creep fed.

The folks down here that sell registered stock feed the heck out of them. Makes for a beautiful bull but first 30 days on a new place and he loses most of that excess baggage.

That's been my experience also, Our goal is to develop nice looking easy keeping bulls that don't melt like snowballs.

 

[Boot Jack Bulls]

Seedstock producers should walk a fine line when developing bulls. It is not just the fat that is an issue. Feed and supplements need to be managed correctly to help a bull pass his BSE. For example, it is recommended not to push corn in the last 60 days prior to test. It is a good idea though to ensure they get enough A,D &E. My goal is to produce bulls that a good enough they don't need fat to compete for buyers. That can be easier said than done though, since most of mine also see a show ring at least a couple of times. In the end, I need a bull that has good growth, but also is developed in a way that he can winter (not on the cows) with only good hay and a lick tub if the hay is poor. I have a hard time finding breeders up here that don't push the daylights out of their bulls with a TMR.

 

[kilroy60]

If you just figure the cost of creep v/s gain v/s sale price then you may not see a benefit. If you add value to what creep feeding does then you can see a benefit. It is not BLACK AND WHITE. Most people only look at individual things and do not think about the big picture. Just turning on a light in the barn cost you a few cents, Cranking the tractor to put out one more bale of hay cost you money.
Creep feeding does several things 1) it conditions the calves to feed, when marketed as conditioned calves they can bring a few cent more, 2) It could improve the condition of the cow as the calf has his appetite satisfied some he will not be as demanding on the cow. 3) It takes some pressure off of the pasture 4)A decent creep can fill in the nutritional decencies of the cow also. 5) I've seen it make the calves calmer. these are just a few added benefits to creep feeding. Now if your just loading up the calves and dropping them off at the barn and you get what you get for em then It will never pencil out.
If you market anything off the farm and the buyer drives up and the calves are all eating out of the trough he can walk amongst them he is likely to pay a little more, That is what I found this past spring selling heifers private treaty, It may not work everywhere but nothing ever does.

Yes - so true and very good point.

 

[True Grit Farms]

We just got in the seedstock business last year and are raising registered bulls to sell around 15 to 20 months of age, I know that it may or may not pay off for commercial cattlemen, but I think in my situation it is a no brainer?

To the folks on the board that sell breeding bulls, do you creep feed? I have heard both sides that they will be heavier at weaning if creep fed and also the other side that they will gain more when put on feed if not creep fed.

The folks down here that sell registered stock feed the heck out of them. Makes for a beautiful bull but first 30 days on a new place and he loses most of that excess baggage.

That's been my experience also, Our goal is to develop nice looking easy keeping bulls that don't melt like snowballs.

If you feed them their gonna lose condition once they get turned out. If you don't feed them the buyer's will look someplace else. Everyone talks a good game but when you get right down to it eye appeal wins most of the time.

 

[farmerjan]

I agree that most people are still looking for the "appeal factor".. I got over that a long time ago. I need to see them in their working clothes and I DON'T want a bull that has been crep fed as a calf. Once they are weaned I realize that they need to be fed; but this overconditioning is just to make them look pretty in the ring and then they got to **** once you turn them out.
We do some "feeding" of our young cattle; to me creep feeding is feed available 24/7 from feeders that they can access anytime. I like to use a creep gate where the calves can get through, and I call them up and then feed them a little, like a 5 gal bucket to 10-20 calves. It gets them tamer, they know what feed is for, they get used to me walking around them, and I can catch them when I want them. I do it every other day or so, enough to keep them coming. Sometimes I put feed in the troughs, sometimes just call them in for some nice hay. Even on pasture the calves will try the hay but mostly it is a little feed. I have a couple of bunks outside the pen and the cows get a bucket of feed too when I call them. That helps to get the calves near the pen and then they see someone come in, they try it and next thing you know, they are all coming in. Anyone who doesn't like to come in, or who runs out as soon as they see you, is a sell calf. Don't need idiot attitudes.....

 

[talltimber]

That's normally what I do too, even the amount of feed. I guess it would be hand-fed creep? The creep pen has hay and water in it, as it is also the weaning pen when the time comes. Works good.

 

[midTN_Brangusman]

The folks down here that sell registered stock feed the heck out of them. Makes for a beautiful bull but first 30 days on a new place and he loses most of that excess baggage.

That's been my experience also, Our goal is to develop nice looking easy keeping bulls that don't melt like snowballs.

If you feed them their gonna lose condition once they get turned out. If you don't feed them the buyer's will look someplace else. Everyone talks a good game but when you get right down to it eye appeal wins most of the time.

Couldn't agree more!

 

[midTN_Brangusman]

I agree that most people are still looking for the "appeal factor".. I got over that a long time ago. I need to see them in their working clothes and I DON'T want a bull that has been crep fed as a calf. Once they are weaned I realize that they need to be fed; but this overconditioning is just to make them look pretty in the ring and then they got to **** once you turn them out.
We do some "feeding" of our young cattle; to me creep feeding is feed available 24/7 from feeders that they can access anytime. I like to use a creep gate where the calves can get through, and I call them up and then feed them a little, like a 5 gal bucket to 10-20 calves. It gets them tamer, they know what feed is for, they get used to me walking around them, and I can catch them when I want them. I do it every other day or so, enough to keep them coming. Sometimes I put feed in the troughs, sometimes just call them in for some nice hay. Even on pasture the calves will try the hay but mostly it is a little feed. I have a couple of bunks outside the pen and the cows get a bucket of feed too when I call them. That helps to get the calves near the pen and then they see someone come in, they try it and next thing you know, they are all coming in. Anyone who doesn't like to come in, or who runs out as soon as they see you, is a sell calf. Don't need idiot attitudes.....

I have never thought about doing it that way, but I like your reasoning behind it. Gets those calves coming up and use to you. I think I may give this a try.