Creep feed

[Craig Miller]

I'll try this again in a different place. Auburn did a test with some calves given creep feed and some not. They LOST money on these calves that were creep fed. I'm not talking about a little bit either. I can't find where I wrote it down but it was something like $85 per head lost. Has anyone done a similar test and have numbers to show proof of money gained or lost on creep feed? I figure most have just took for granted that creep feed makes money. They took the same calves that were not creep fed and fed them for two months with the same feed starting at weaning. Took them to a precondition sale and made more money on them even though they sold in November after prices started falling.

 

[Bigfoot]

Creep feeding, can get in your pocket. I like to creep for a month before weaning. They'll usually find their feed faster that way when you wean them. Perhaps in a drought situation, it may not be a bad idea. Do I have numbers to support my claims? No I don't.

 

[skyhightree1]

I have always creep fed and always will it helps give the mama a break and helps calves out too.. It makes my calves bulk up get them out faster. If you are not careful it can get really costly. My creep feeding has greatly diminished since I am getting a minimum of 15 tons of brewers grain a week currently. The little calves go in the creep and eat some then come out graze and eat some brewers grain so I fill the creep up 600lbs and it has lasted a month and a half with over 20 of this years calves on it.

 

[TexasBred]

I'll try this again in a different place. Auburn did a test with some calves given creep feed and some not. They LOST money on these calves that were creep fed. I'm not talking about a little bit either. I can't find where I wrote it down but it was something like $85 per head lost. Has anyone done a similar test and have numbers to show proof of money gained or lost on creep feed? I figure most have just took for granted that creep feed makes money. They took the same calves that were not creep fed and fed them for two months with the same feed starting at weaning. Took them to a precondition sale and made more money on them even though they sold in November after prices started falling.

A lot would depend on quality of the creep feed used and the calf's ability to convert it to gain. I probably get more gain this time of the year on just good fertilized pasture and mama's milk than on creep feeding. Come hot weather time it will change.

 

[jscunn]

Craig it is one study and one set of financial conditions. The research on this particular subject can go either way.

If you market on the rail and get paid on the grid, creep feeding is the way to go. If you trailer wean your calves then the obvious answer is not to creep feed. The middle ground where it gets hazy depending on marketing conditions and violitality.

 

[Ebenezer]

On commercial calves, study the weight ranges and price breaks in your local markets. If good 500 pound calves sell for almost as much as good 600 pound calves there is no advantage to feed them. There is a glass ceiling price in a lot of local markets and buyers will not go over that for most calves coming through the ring regardless of weight and the price per pound will decrease to stay under that level. Find that ceiling and know that it exists.

Sold the tail end last Dec/Jan and the calves were weaned and in great shape but just younger. The lightest brought the most but all were medium+ frame. Creep feeding, in that case, would have been 100% waste. There are folks here who creep feed, wean early, background and sell heavy weight calves but they do it via video and truckload lots. We are not that big and don't plan to be. I have no idea if they are making money or are just locked into the system with equipment, feed, facilities and numbers. Activity does not automatically equal profit.

On registered calves, you are skewing data on poor milking cows and putting fat on replacement heifers. The bull calves will look better but not breed any better. I think/know that excess weight on a young bull calf in early life impacts feet, legs, joints and spine in the wrong way. Better to let them grow a skeleton be correct in phenotype and pack on what pounds they need later. We see that in the older herd sires here that we raise - still athletic when others are long gone from limps and crippling. We have replaced bulls in local herds a number of times and they were from the same high named herds and were high priced bulls who apparently outgrew their bones and joints at 3 or 4 YO. That will be the one shot those folks will take at paying high to buy a part of the dream. They paid the price and learned that lesson, I hope. Or else they go to the next most advertised herd and try a wonder from there! Human nature.

Want to see an ugly duckling, use a forage based long yearling as a breeder and then put him back in with contemporary bulls after the season. But give him a year and he will shine like a new penny. Maybe not as big as he could have been but the calves are proof of good or bad. But he will stick with you for many years.

It is all a matter of economics and a type in cattle that work in your environment without a lot of props under them.

 

[jltrent]

With the price of cattle going down creep feeding is getting more costly. Around here the creep feed is so full of Gluten and low quality feed that it is not worth much.

 

[skyhightree1]

With the price of cattle going down creep feeding is getting more costly. Around here the creep feed is so full of Gluten and low quality feed that it is not worth much.

What do you put in your creep JL ?

 

[True Grit Farms]

A 60% corn and 40% hairy cotton seed mix with a bag of show mineral, a bag of sodium bicarbonate and a bag of molasses added per ton is the best feed that I've ever used. And the cost was less than $190. a ton.

 

[Craig Miller]

They were using a cottonseed mix. It looks like most of you have no proof that you are actually make more money with creep feed than you would without it?

 

[skyhightree1]

They were using a cottonseed mix. It looks like most of you have no proof that you are actually make more money with creep feed than you would without it?

I don't creep to make more money as creeping will take from your profits of course.. I creep to help the cow and calf.

 

[RiverHills]

I creep feed for about a month before weaning. I do this not to help the cow or calf but to help the weaning process. i think it pays in that way. As far as helping the cow I don't think it does much the calf is still going to keep her dry. If you're trying to help the cow, wean early or feed the cow better. There so many factors and seneros that can make it pay or not pay.

 

[True Grit Farms]

They were using a cottonseed mix. It looks like most of you have no proof that you are actually make more money with creep feed than you would without it?

I made more $money by creep feeding my heifers. We put in twice the effort, twice the money and time, but made twice as much per animal. There's plenty of different ways to make money on cattle and most involve time and marketing.

Then there's the creep feeding as a supplement for poor hay. You can go to a 50-50 mix of corn and cottonseed and feed poor hay. Your gains will be the same as feeding good hay. And dollar wise it will be the same or a little cheaper feeding the poor hay and supplementing. But it's time consuming.

 

[TexasBred]

They were using a cottonseed mix. It looks like most of you have no proof that you are actually make more money with creep feed than you would without it?

I made more $money by creep feeding my heifers. We put in twice the effort, twice the money and time, but made twice as much per animal. There's plenty of different ways to make money on cattle and most involve time and marketing.

Then there's the creep feeding as a supplement for poor hay. You can go to a 50-50 mix of corn and cottonseed and feed poor hay. Your gains will be the same as feeding good hay. And dollar wise it will be the same or a little cheaper feeding the poor hay and supplementing. But it's time consuming.

TGF I doubt he'll believe you without a P&L statement or at the least a shot of your bank statement. :lol: :lol:

 

[M-5]

If you just figure the cost of creep v/s gain v/s sale price then you may not see a benefit. If you add value to what creep feeding does then you can see a benefit. It is not BLACK AND WHITE. Most people only look at individual things and do not think about the big picture. Just turning on a light in the barn cost you a few cents, Cranking the tractor to put out one more bale of hay cost you money.
Creep feeding does several things 1) it conditions the calves to feed, when marketed as conditioned calves they can bring a few cent more, 2) It could improve the condition of the cow as the calf has his appetite satisfied some he will not be as demanding on the cow. 3) It takes some pressure off of the pasture 4)A decent creep can fill in the nutritional decencies of the cow also. 5) I've seen it make the calves calmer. these are just a few added benefits to creep feeding. Now if your just loading up the calves and dropping them off at the barn and you get what you get for em then It will never pencil out.
If you market anything off the farm and the buyer drives up and the calves are all eating out of the trough he can walk amongst them he is likely to pay a little more, That is what I found this past spring selling heifers private treaty, It may not work everywhere but nothing ever does.

 

[Craig Miller]

They were using a cottonseed mix. It looks like most of you have no proof that you are actually make more money with creep feed than you would without it?

I made more $money by creep feeding my heifers. We put in twice the effort, twice the money and time, but made twice as much per animal. There's plenty of different ways to make money on cattle and most involve time and marketing.

Then there's the creep feeding as a supplement for poor hay. You can go to a 50-50 mix of corn and cottonseed and feed poor hay. Your gains will be the same as feeding good hay. And dollar wise it will be the same or a little cheaper feeding the poor hay and supplementing. But it's time consuming.

TGF I doubt he'll believe you without a P&L statement or at the least a shot of your bank statement. :lol: :lol:

Tax returns for the last 4 years would be better

 

[Craig Miller]

If you just figure the cost of creep v/s gain v/s sale price then you may not see a benefit. If you add value to what creep feeding does then you can see a benefit. It is not BLACK AND WHITE. Most people only look at individual things and do not think about the big picture. Just turning on a light in the barn cost you a few cents, Cranking the tractor to put out one more bale of hay cost you money.
Creep feeding does several things 1) it conditions the calves to feed, when marketed as conditioned calves they can bring a few cent more, 2) It could improve the condition of the cow as the calf has his appetite satisfied some he will not be as demanding on the cow. 3) It takes some pressure off of the pasture 4)A decent creep can fill in the nutritional decencies of the cow also. 5) I've seen it make the calves calmer. these are just a few added benefits to creep feeding. Now if your just loading up the calves and dropping them off at the barn and you get what you get for em then It will never pencil out.
If you market anything off the farm and the buyer drives up and the calves are all eating out of the trough he can walk amongst them he is likely to pay a little more, That is what I found this past spring selling heifers private treaty, It may not work everywhere but nothing ever does.

Thanks for the input. Sounds like you've put a lot of thought into this and some trial and error. I left out another important note until I got some feed back to see what everybody thought. The cows came through winter in better shape with the calves on creep.

 

[M-5]

that's exactly why I started creep is feeding poor hay and needing to get cows thru the winter. What I use for creep is cheap but works with what I do. I keep a feeder full of it yr round and right now I only see a calf or 2 in it every few days , They get all they need from grass right now. In the winter they are in it all the time.

 

[Amo]

They were using a cottonseed mix. It looks like most of you have no proof that you are actually make more money with creep feed than you would without it?

I don't creep to make more money as creeping will take from your profits of course.. I creep to help the cow and calf.

Im going to respectfully disagree with this comment. I feel that milk is like candy to a calf. That calf will suck all the milk out of that cow that she can produce. Now you put out steak (creep) will he eat the creep, sure. He will still suck that cow dry as often as he can. I use to creep year in and year out. Id put it out on march born calves in about mid August. Ive never seen a cow put on condition while a calf is sucking on her. I also don't think it will streach pasture. They will always eat fresh green grass first. Now if the grass goes down hill, that will change. But it your grass is brown, that grass won't do you any good anyway. It might let you run a few more pairs. I understand that some years you cant find enough pasture etc. Thats a management decesion. In all reality though, your overstocked. Why not rent more grass & let mother nature do what its supposed to?

 

[TexasBred]

They were using a cottonseed mix. It looks like most of you have no proof that you are actually make more money with creep feed than you would without it?

I don't creep to make more money as creeping will take from your profits of course.. I creep to help the cow and calf.

Im going to respectfully disagree with this comment. I feel that milk is like candy to a calf. That calf will suck all the milk out of that cow that she can produce. Now you put out steak (creep) will he eat the creep, sure. He will still suck that cow dry as often as he can. I use to creep year in and year out. Id put it out on march born calves in about mid August. Ive never seen a cow put on condition while a calf is sucking on her. I also don't think it will streach pasture. They will always eat fresh green grass first. Now if the grass goes down hill, that will change. But it your grass is brown, that grass won't do you any good anyway. It might let you run a few more pairs. I understand that some years you cant find enough pasture etc. Thats a management decesion. In all reality though, your overstocked. Why not rent more grass & let mother nature do what its supposed to?

Calves will always nurse first regardless of age. Then fill up on creep and some grazing. Cattle will eat creep from a feeder standing belly deep in grass. Just a fact !!!!! It may not add condition but it will help maintain condition while lactating as well as increase milk production.