Santas and Duhram Reds
Well-known member
Robbie is a funny guy and he and the Sneeds have been in the shorthorn business for generations.
Crash Course Shorthorn
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There are several lines of bulls originating in Western Canada that descend in the paternal line from Manadalong Super Flag. Mandalong Super Flag was born in Australia in 1971 and imported to Canada in 1972 by Gary and Terry Carter, Newbiggon Shorthorns. Super Flag was a Grand Champion at the Denver National Western Stock Show. In Canada Super Flag had a huge influence.
The one line was the Eionmor Ideals. They descend from Mandalong Super Flag through Miami Flag 10G, Winalot Big Mac, Lanalta Whiteout. Whiteout was the sire of the Ideals. The one son Eionmor Ideal 69F was a very well muscled bull. He in turn sired Muridale Buster 14K, Eionmor Ideal 4M, Eionmor Ideal 25M, Eionmor Ideal 61M and Eionmor Ideal 50P. Muridale Buster 14K sired Muridale Buster 2nd 76P plus innumerable others. 4M sired Six S Samson 25S and Six S Ranger 12R. Eionmor Ideal 50P was a senior sire at Eionmor and a son Eionmor Ideal 82T is now in service. The Buster and Ideal 61M are definitely calving ease lines.
Another sire line descending from Flag through Eionmor are the Eionmor Mr. Gus bulls. Flag sired Crowfoot Flag, sire of the Gafa Mochican bull used at Eionmor for several years. There he sired Eionmor Mr. Gus 30B, Eionmor Mr Gus 80C, Eionmor Mr Gus 85C, Eionmor Mr Gus 58F. The Eionmor Highlanders were sons of 80C. Another 80C son was Glenford Gus 4H in turn the sire of Star P Matrix a popular sire used first at Butterfield's and then at Horseshoe Creek and ACC Cattle in Saskatchewan.
Still a third line was the Ultra line. Flag sired Crestdale Super Flag 14G a high selling bull at the Regina Bull sale. 14G sired Manitoba Sunrise used at Saskvalley and Huberdale. A son of Manitoba Sunrise was Butterfield Ultramarine used at Eionmor where he sired Eionmor Ultra 8C the sire of Eionmor Ultra 88G. In turn 88G sired the likes of Alta Cedar Ultimate 130K used at Muridale and Evergreen and Alta cedar ultimate 8J used at Saskvalley. One of 8J's sons with huge impact is Saskvalley Navajo 153M now being used at Nick Steinke and Saskvalley Pioneer 126P a National Champion bull for Horseshoe Creek and Fantasy Lane with calves worldwide. This line is being carried on at Eionmor with senior herd sire Eionmor Ultra 4M.
Newbiggon Supreme was a son of Mandalong Super Flag, out of the imported Australian cow Mandalong Roany 51st. He was a twin born with Newbiggon Powerline used in the D'N Eden and Thorncliffe herds in Saskatchewan. Newbiggon Supreme was a senior herd sire for Dave and Pat Durie's Duralta Shorthorns. At the Duralta Dispersal several herd sires were purchased in dam. Some of these bulls were Bar C Supreme 6H used at Carter's in BC. Duncairn Supreme and Scotsmorr Supreme 7H used in Saskatchewan. Sunalta Royal supreme 25H used at Dusty Valley in Alberta and Butterfield Krakatoa used at Butterfield's in Alberta. Krakatoa is still seeing use AI across Canada.
One other line descending from Mandalong Super Flag again through Miami Flag 10G, Winalot Big Mac, Winalot Mighty Maxim then Butterfield's F l's Texas out of a Butterfield Krakatoa daughter. Texas's two influential sons were T Bar Mactexas and Butterfield Able Seaman. Both of these bulls have descendants in Canada, USA, Great Britain, Ireland, New Zealand and Australia. Here is a link to a video of Flag
http://www.browarny.com/legacy/video/clip27.html
The one line was the Eionmor Ideals. They descend from Mandalong Super Flag through Miami Flag 10G, Winalot Big Mac, Lanalta Whiteout. Whiteout was the sire of the Ideals. The one son Eionmor Ideal 69F was a very well muscled bull. He in turn sired Muridale Buster 14K, Eionmor Ideal 4M, Eionmor Ideal 25M, Eionmor Ideal 61M and Eionmor Ideal 50P. Muridale Buster 14K sired Muridale Buster 2nd 76P plus innumerable others. 4M sired Six S Samson 25S and Six S Ranger 12R. Eionmor Ideal 50P was a senior sire at Eionmor and a son Eionmor Ideal 82T is now in service. The Buster and Ideal 61M are definitely calving ease lines.
Another sire line descending from Flag through Eionmor are the Eionmor Mr. Gus bulls. Flag sired Crowfoot Flag, sire of the Gafa Mochican bull used at Eionmor for several years. There he sired Eionmor Mr. Gus 30B, Eionmor Mr Gus 80C, Eionmor Mr Gus 85C, Eionmor Mr Gus 58F. The Eionmor Highlanders were sons of 80C. Another 80C son was Glenford Gus 4H in turn the sire of Star P Matrix a popular sire used first at Butterfield's and then at Horseshoe Creek and ACC Cattle in Saskatchewan.
Still a third line was the Ultra line. Flag sired Crestdale Super Flag 14G a high selling bull at the Regina Bull sale. 14G sired Manitoba Sunrise used at Saskvalley and Huberdale. A son of Manitoba Sunrise was Butterfield Ultramarine used at Eionmor where he sired Eionmor Ultra 8C the sire of Eionmor Ultra 88G. In turn 88G sired the likes of Alta Cedar Ultimate 130K used at Muridale and Evergreen and Alta cedar ultimate 8J used at Saskvalley. One of 8J's sons with huge impact is Saskvalley Navajo 153M now being used at Nick Steinke and Saskvalley Pioneer 126P a National Champion bull for Horseshoe Creek and Fantasy Lane with calves worldwide. This line is being carried on at Eionmor with senior herd sire Eionmor Ultra 4M.
Newbiggon Supreme was a son of Mandalong Super Flag, out of the imported Australian cow Mandalong Roany 51st. He was a twin born with Newbiggon Powerline used in the D'N Eden and Thorncliffe herds in Saskatchewan. Newbiggon Supreme was a senior herd sire for Dave and Pat Durie's Duralta Shorthorns. At the Duralta Dispersal several herd sires were purchased in dam. Some of these bulls were Bar C Supreme 6H used at Carter's in BC. Duncairn Supreme and Scotsmorr Supreme 7H used in Saskatchewan. Sunalta Royal supreme 25H used at Dusty Valley in Alberta and Butterfield Krakatoa used at Butterfield's in Alberta. Krakatoa is still seeing use AI across Canada.
One other line descending from Mandalong Super Flag again through Miami Flag 10G, Winalot Big Mac, Winalot Mighty Maxim then Butterfield's F l's Texas out of a Butterfield Krakatoa daughter. Texas's two influential sons were T Bar Mactexas and Butterfield Able Seaman. Both of these bulls have descendants in Canada, USA, Great Britain, Ireland, New Zealand and Australia. Here is a link to a video of Flag
http://www.browarny.com/legacy/video/clip27.html
Since this is a Shorthorn thread I thought I would post a picture of one of my favorite shorthorn cows. She belongs to my ex partner and has raised a calf every yer for 9 years now. Just a commercial cow but a dandy.
3waycross":1x9kso1g said:Since this is a Shorthorn thread I thought I would post a picture of one of my favorite shorthorn cows. She belongs to my ex partner and has raised a calf every yer for 9 years now. Just a commercial cow but a dandy.
Just lovely!
Santas and Duhram Reds":29e99wri said:
I did travel through Rob's brother Jim's herd: same cow base but Jim has used Waukaru bulls for performance. Rob kept his herd asterik free and basically closed.
I toured through crestmead Shorthorns this past fall ( just up the road from the sneed brothers). I recall a story about sending a "hired" man up the road to trade bulls with Crestmead's hired man - each holding a shorthorn bull - this is historic like more then 100 yrs ago.
Mr 3-way cross - you might know that Rob's future will include a % of gelvieh in his "Rob's reds" bull sales. This project starts this spring.
So if you travel west on 70 in MO - you stumble across Meadowlane Farms. Serious Shorthorn breeders, owners of GFS Red Cloud 7026 ( sire of Captain). Harold has a great composite deal going too. Honest straight shooter kind of breeder. I made comments in other posts about stacking 7026, please just see for yourselves.
I can keep going west on 70 but for the most part just know the circle of solid red shorthorn breeders is wide. Some never advertise and some are hard to reach by phone.
Roan-
I personally am a bigger fan of Proud Leader over Jake's Proud Jazz. The females by Proud Leader are roomy, great uddered, not just short statured but push the scales down too. Hey, Im not the jury but this Jazz fade is jumbo. I have had my eyes on a dark roan son of Proud leader and out of 5113 cow ( jazz's granddam)... You have to pay attention to Ohlde's program, like duh he knows cattle . Really 5113 is still breathing at 15 yrs of age? It's the Irish pride in Jazz's pedigree I can do without.
Maybe have to check out the buster bull on previous page, always looking for lower weight births. I am not a fan of Jakes proud jazz either, we have tried him but not liking the results. Dream would be to have calving ease with muscle and show look. lol. Seems hard to do at times.
Santas and Duhram Reds
Well-known member
I have purchased many durham red cattle from the Bertz's and they raise real cattle, he has and annual sale every fall. Jim has used Waukaru bulls but I am pretty certain most of his herd is asterick free. Also, I am pretty certain Robbie has used some Red angus in some of his herd in the past.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
OK, while we're doing the 'crash course' thing, what's the deal with the 'asterisk'?
I'm presuming that it means that at some point back in that animal's ancestry there was a non-registered or non-Shorthorn animal - like a Maine-Anjou?
If that's the case, I guess I can see the 'importance' of 'asterisk-free' for folks playing the purebred game, but for commercial producers, like myself, I could care less if there was 'something in the woodpile' 7 or 8 generations back - that influence is likely so diluted at this point that it's of little consequence - good or bad.
I'm presuming that it means that at some point back in that animal's ancestry there was a non-registered or non-Shorthorn animal - like a Maine-Anjou?
If that's the case, I guess I can see the 'importance' of 'asterisk-free' for folks playing the purebred game, but for commercial producers, like myself, I could care less if there was 'something in the woodpile' 7 or 8 generations back - that influence is likely so diluted at this point that it's of little consequence - good or bad.
The * asterisk in both the US and Canadian herd books indicates the animal came from the grading up process through the appendix program. You are right in that most animals carrying the asterisk are pretty pure especially if they are listed as purebred. The exception would be the maine influence cattle in the ASA herd book where red maine Anjous were allowed in as 3/4 blood. These animals have an MA in their number. You could find bulls that say they are purebred(15/16) but are actually 3/4 Shorthorn and 1/4 Maine. This may not be important to a lot of buyers but something to keep in mind if it is.
I think Shorthorns are the only British breed with an upgarding program.
I think Shorthorns are the only British breed with an upgarding program.
I am new on this forum, but I find the postings rather interesting. We have used Waukaru bulls and they have been asterik free, and have done very well on fescue pastures here on our farm.( I do not consider Waukaru bulls to be vacuum cleaners.) Most shorthorn bulls in the breed do have some asterik in their background and Dunbeacon Venture's pedigree is definitely one that I would question. Our bulls go back to Coppertop and Vann. In addition to low birth weights, they are moderate frame and wean awesome calves. Our program has worked great for us as we participate in steer feedouts and heifer development programs, and have received awards through the years for profit, weight, etc., We tend to maintain a little dignity and a sense of humility, so we do not post it everywhere. We may have a small herd compare to some, but our efforts are in maintaining quality and consistent cow groups. Since I saw discussions and comparisons regarding our herd, I just wanted to set the record straight. 
Sorry if I come across rather rude. I certainly don't intend to..... and Sue, I hope that the next time you are in the neighborhood and visiting our herd, please let us know you are here. I would like to visit with you. I have had a passion for the shorthorn breed for 35 years, and have worked closely with my husband throughout this venture.
Sorry if I come across rather rude. I certainly don't intend to..... and Sue, I hope that the next time you are in the neighborhood and visiting our herd, please let us know you are here. I would like to visit with you. I have had a passion for the shorthorn breed for 35 years, and have worked closely with my husband throughout this venture.Ashland":2j1i0vrs said:I am new on this forum, but I find the postings rather interesting. We have used Waukaru bulls and they have been asterik free, and have done very well on fescue pastures here on our farm.( I do not consider Waukaru bulls to be vacuum cleaners.) Most shorthorn bulls in the breed do have some asterik in their background and Dunbeacon Venture's pedigree is definitely one that I would question. Our bulls go back to Coppertop and Vann. In addition to low birth weights, they are moderate frame and wean awesome calves. Our program has worked great for us as we participate in steer feedouts and heifer development programs, and have received awards through the years for profit, weight, etc., We tend to maintain a little dignity and a sense of humility, so we do not post it everywhere. We may have a small herd compare to some, but our efforts are in maintaining quality and consistent cow groups. Since I saw discussions and comparisons regarding our herd, I just wanted to set the record straight.
where are you
Santas and Duhram Reds
Well-known member
Welcome to the boards! i feel like I know you... :lol2: ;-)
Yes, I can see these boards are very informational. I look forward to connect with other shorthorn breeders. Some of my favorite road trips with Jim is visiting other shorthorn breeders. We have met some great people. I really do have a passion for the breed and I am sincere when I feel that shorthorn breeders should work together for the betterment of the breed. The marketing strategies I have witnessed disturbs me and I guess that goes on in every breed. It is a shame. Shorthorns have so much to offer.
Ashland - I think my comment regarding your herdsires was "Performance bulls" from Waukauru was a pretty good one? We met in 2006 at the end of your drive way? You toured me through two groups.
For the record I have used Waukauru breeding. I am not sure who is an older breeder(s) Sneed Shorthorns or Ashland or Waukauru ? Waukauru is located in Indiana- Toby and Barry do a great job of remembering every face they meet. If you sell Waukauru sired cattle in a sale, you can bet they will be in the seats. I dont think there is a better operation that covers customer service better then they do. Large bull sale spring of every year.
For the record I have used Waukauru breeding. I am not sure who is an older breeder(s) Sneed Shorthorns or Ashland or Waukauru ? Waukauru is located in Indiana- Toby and Barry do a great job of remembering every face they meet. If you sell Waukauru sired cattle in a sale, you can bet they will be in the seats. I dont think there is a better operation that covers customer service better then they do. Large bull sale spring of every year.
