Crash Course Shorthorn
- Thread starter Santas and Duhram Reds
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Northern Rancher
Well-known member
E-mail the stuff on your bulls for sale if you don't mind-thank you in advance.
I think there are several herds in Western Canada that are focusing are breeding programs that focused on providing bulls for the commercial industry. There is a lot of discussion on providing bloodlines that give you 1200 lb. cows but I think most Canadian commercial herds expect their cows to be 1400 lb plus.
Here is abull we are using that is reducing our birth weights.
Here is abull we are using that is reducing our birth weights.
okotoks":20tnohq4 said:I think there are several herds in Western Canada that are focusing are breeding programs that focused on providing bulls for the commercial industry. There is a lot of discussion on providing bloodlines that give you 1200 lb. cows but I think most Canadian commercial herds expect their cows to be 1400 lb plus.
Here is abull we are using that is reducing our birth weights.
What's his name????????????
His name is Diamond Prophecy 21P, he is a son of RB Red Eagle Y2K a bull we got from Ralph Larson in Montana and Y2K was bred by Rocker Brothers. His dam is from the Baroness cow family going back to Dave Ball's, Ball Dee breeding. His birth weight was 84 lbs. and he has a 0.4 BW EPD.
2/B or not 2/B":1e0zpvsr said:
It's true alot of SH breeders just figured this whole thing out. So alot of fire and ice matings. Or one generation of cowsense but layered with show lines.
I know of many really very focused Shorthorn operations across the country - call or email and I will tell you what I know . Yep, I have bulls to sell like everyone else too. But trust me when I say the breeders are out there.
By the way- Rob Sneed Shorthorns, bred RS 034, picture is on our web page. He and A&T Captain Obvious semen is available through Cattle Visions. Our link has current videos of CO offspring . I do have video of 034, just ask and I'll post on our youtube channel- lakesideshorthorns.
Merry Christmas!
Commercialfarmer
Well-known member
This came from the gentleman that started this same thread for angus cattle. I think their are a lot of cattlemen that are interested in trying some of the more maternal breeds and looking for this type of information. If you are knowledgable in the shorthorn breed, why not give your opinion of atributes of cow families, or bull families and the history behind them. It is fair to state whether a particular line is larger framed or smaller framed or if you know about birthing ease or difficulty, udder quality and fleshing ability. Or for those in the feeding industry, carcass quality and feed conversion. This type of information can be very usefull for everyone. We can use other threads to argue about what we think is ideal for the industry as this can change from geographical areas less than 500 miles apart. So one size won't fit all.
Edit: There should be a novel on here by now.
Coyote
Well-known member
Commercialfarmer here is your novel http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/index.php?topic=21104.0 , the only thing is I don't think they have wrote the climax yet!
trevorgreycattleco
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Coyote, you beat me to it LOL! I was going to put that thing up as well. That is the thread that is just to tough to die. I don't help when I keep running my yap on their. To say it is a highly debated issue would be putting it mildly. Grab some beers and stoke the fire before you start that thing. :banana:
2/B or not 2/B
Well-known member
Well, I read it. Skimmed parts, unfortunately there was a lot of pointless arguing between specific posters, which was a waste of time. I did learn a lot though, thanks. Best part was the list and photos and some of the discussion from a few of the breeders. It helps to know a little about all those bulls. Now I can watch and see who, if anyone, uses them around here. So far...no one.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
2/B,
Took me about 3 days to wade through it, too. Could have done without some of the arguments - but those happen here, too.
Not sure I'm buying the connection some put forward about continued breeding of low birthweights and poor calving ability in subsequent generations of heifers/cows. Maternal calving ease(MCE/CEM) epds on many low birthweight Angus & Simmental sires are well above breed average, and suggest that their daughters would calve easily as 1st calvers. When breeding for replacement heifers, I usually won't use a sire with MCE/CEM below breed average, and try to go as high with that epd as I can, so long as other criteria are within parameters.
Got some good leads on some additional calving ease Shorthorn bulls that I would feel comfortable breeding mature Angus or Simmental cows to, but still have some concern about breeding virgin heifers to Shorthorn bulls - but when I'm seeing high CED epds and actual BW numbers(if they're true) in the 70-80# range, it makes me wonder if those might work OK.
I'd still like to hear from susie q , rn reed, coyote, etc. on which red Shorthorn bulls - if any - that they'd feel confident recommending to breed to virgin Angus heifers.
As susie q stated in the SP discussion, for a commercial cowman, a live calf is the most important thing - those big dead ones have a distressingly low weaning weight.
Took me about 3 days to wade through it, too. Could have done without some of the arguments - but those happen here, too.
Not sure I'm buying the connection some put forward about continued breeding of low birthweights and poor calving ability in subsequent generations of heifers/cows. Maternal calving ease(MCE/CEM) epds on many low birthweight Angus & Simmental sires are well above breed average, and suggest that their daughters would calve easily as 1st calvers. When breeding for replacement heifers, I usually won't use a sire with MCE/CEM below breed average, and try to go as high with that epd as I can, so long as other criteria are within parameters.
Got some good leads on some additional calving ease Shorthorn bulls that I would feel comfortable breeding mature Angus or Simmental cows to, but still have some concern about breeding virgin heifers to Shorthorn bulls - but when I'm seeing high CED epds and actual BW numbers(if they're true) in the 70-80# range, it makes me wonder if those might work OK.
I'd still like to hear from susie q , rn reed, coyote, etc. on which red Shorthorn bulls - if any - that they'd feel confident recommending to breed to virgin Angus heifers.
As susie q stated in the SP discussion, for a commercial cowman, a live calf is the most important thing - those big dead ones have a distressingly low weaning weight.
Nesikep
Well-known member
Very well put!!
in my herd, I haven't been looking for low BW bulls since our cows can all handle larger calves, but we also aren't in the bull business..
One sire line that stands out for me in Western Canada is the Huberdale Mastercharge 42T bull. 42T was sired by the Irish import Deerpark Improver 52nd. His dam was a grand daughter of Mandalong Super Elephant with the rest of her pedigree being polled beef bloodlines from Western Canada. 42T left some great producing daughters with very good udders in both the Huberdale and Saskvalley herds. Saskvalley linebred to 42T also using Manitoba Sunrise and a blend of Irish and beef bloodlines. The Saskvalley Ultra 12J is linebred to 42T and is definitely a calving ease bull but also gives a great deal body depth and musling. 12J has sired several calving ease sires such as Saskvalley Bonanza(posted earlier in this topic),Saskvalley Primo 40P, Saskvalley Roughneck 154R and Saskvalley Stampede 128S. Saskvalley have several sire lines but the Ultra 12J would be one of the most prepotent siring both bulls and heifers. Several bulls of this line are seeing service in commercial herds.
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
Okotoks you post on steerplanet too. Does it take them forever to send you your confirmation e-mail so you can post on there. Maybe Grant doesn't want me telling about our roadtrips lol.
Coyote
Well-known member
Lucky_P , I would recommend Muridale Buster 2nd 76P for heifers. we have calved out over 150 heifers that were bred to him, with good success.
His BW epd is -5.2
His BW epd is -5.2
Coyote":3nmrb2vm said:Lucky_P , I would recommend Muridale Buster 2nd 76P for heifers. we have calved out over 150 heifers that were bred to him, with good success.
His BW epd is -5.2
I wondered how long it would take for someone to post him. I wish I had 50 high altitude Red Angus cows to breed to him.
BTW did he throw any color? I know his sire is a Red Roan.
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
No e-mail and I still can't get in there- Buster is a stud for sure!
The first time I tried registering on SP I never got an email so I registered again. I may have two accounts but I can't even remember my original user name and password.
There's no doubt Buster 2nd is an excellent option on heifers.
There's no doubt Buster 2nd is an excellent option on heifers.
I am slow at responding to PM's :
Both Captain and 034 have been used in Black influenced herds with great success. I have shear force tenderness on 034 and Captain is pending. The bulls are two yrs apart in age. 329 is a son of 034, even more linebred 3 yr old. All three are solid red,polled.
The breeders of A& T Captain Obvious - grew up Commerical Angus and have a awesome herd in NE. Captain is literally the 1st PB SH bull they sold- I stalked this young couple and made the purchase on a 5 mos old calf. The cow base started out w 10 Dover Sindelair hfr calves and then later the purchase of Greenvalley's herd. Awesome set of black cows there too. Maternal function is serious business for Aaron. I really didnt stalk them - were pretty good friends now.
RS 034, Rob Sneed is a 5th generation SH breeder, about 300 hd and did his thing for years . His calves kick butt on feed and I met him through SH University. Rob's tour and story is better in person but He stopped checking cows a long time ago. He will have several trait leading bulls in ASA. Long story but he was very stubborn about collecting 034 and this was about a two yr project for me. Simply the most uniform group I have every traveled through. Any color or any breed. You might find a 1400 lber on a good grass yr, gorgeous udders, cows that are cows. Funny funny man, 1st production sale this spring in Sedalia, MO. Last Thursday in March.
Sorry I have not posted pictures. www.lakesideshorthorns.com
Here are epd's :
RS 329, linebred 269 and son of 034: REg # 4142538
CE +5.2 BW -2.8 WW 12 YW 30 M 3 MCE +1.9 ( Breed Ave top 3% CE and top 30% YW)
act BW 69
RS 034- grandson of Dunbeacon Venture X Titlest 269: REg # 4078267
CE + 4.6 BW -2.9 WW 21 YW 47 M 3 MCE +2.8
Act Bw 80
Breeds top 3% growth, top 4 % CE and top 20% WW, top 1% BW, semen is limited
A&T Captain Obvious 606S- GFS Red Cloud 7026 X DRC 244MU
CE + 3.6 BW -2.4 WW 10 YW 20 M -1 MCE 0.4
Act BW 85
Just a note about Genestar, Igenity for shorthorns it means basically nothing. This is no secret ASA is gathering enough for a marker .
I absolutely love SH X Angus cross !! I will eventually dump the papers and retire with this as a herd.
Both Captain and 034 have been used in Black influenced herds with great success. I have shear force tenderness on 034 and Captain is pending. The bulls are two yrs apart in age. 329 is a son of 034, even more linebred 3 yr old. All three are solid red,polled.
The breeders of A& T Captain Obvious - grew up Commerical Angus and have a awesome herd in NE. Captain is literally the 1st PB SH bull they sold- I stalked this young couple and made the purchase on a 5 mos old calf. The cow base started out w 10 Dover Sindelair hfr calves and then later the purchase of Greenvalley's herd. Awesome set of black cows there too. Maternal function is serious business for Aaron. I really didnt stalk them - were pretty good friends now.
RS 034, Rob Sneed is a 5th generation SH breeder, about 300 hd and did his thing for years . His calves kick butt on feed and I met him through SH University. Rob's tour and story is better in person but He stopped checking cows a long time ago. He will have several trait leading bulls in ASA. Long story but he was very stubborn about collecting 034 and this was about a two yr project for me. Simply the most uniform group I have every traveled through. Any color or any breed. You might find a 1400 lber on a good grass yr, gorgeous udders, cows that are cows. Funny funny man, 1st production sale this spring in Sedalia, MO. Last Thursday in March.
Sorry I have not posted pictures. www.lakesideshorthorns.com
Here are epd's :
RS 329, linebred 269 and son of 034: REg # 4142538
CE +5.2 BW -2.8 WW 12 YW 30 M 3 MCE +1.9 ( Breed Ave top 3% CE and top 30% YW)
act BW 69
RS 034- grandson of Dunbeacon Venture X Titlest 269: REg # 4078267
CE + 4.6 BW -2.9 WW 21 YW 47 M 3 MCE +2.8
Act Bw 80
Breeds top 3% growth, top 4 % CE and top 20% WW, top 1% BW, semen is limited
A&T Captain Obvious 606S- GFS Red Cloud 7026 X DRC 244MU
CE + 3.6 BW -2.4 WW 10 YW 20 M -1 MCE 0.4
Act BW 85
Just a note about Genestar, Igenity for shorthorns it means basically nothing. This is no secret ASA is gathering enough for a marker .
I absolutely love SH X Angus cross !! I will eventually dump the papers and retire with this as a herd.
