Santas and Duhram Reds
Well-known member
A crash course so people can learn more about the major bloodlines that make up the Shorthorn Breed. This is intended for people who want to learn more about Shorthorn cattle.
Crash Course Shorthorn
- Thread starter Santas and Duhram Reds
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Lucky_P
Well-known member
We just started using some Shorthorn sires, AI, on high-percentage Angus & Simmental cows this year, so I can't make any hard & fast, or experienced comments - but I've relied on a number of friends who have been in the Shorthorn 'business' for decades for some recommendations.
One, from a fellow vet who breeds some Shorthorns, in addition to Maines & Red Angus:
"The current Shorthorn breed (IMO) has 2 different components (although they try to sell it as one) the show and the real world - so I think you would need to do some due diligence to find the right bull(s).
The Shorthorns are all over the board in terms of frame score and WDA, ADG - many of the popular bulls are not at all consistent. Also there are very few real calving ease bulls in the breed, especially when you get into the "show" world. There are a couple of Shorthorn bulls that do downsize if that is an issue.
Both TH(tibial hemimelia) and PHA(pulmonary hypoplasia/anasarca) can be a problem with Shorthorns - although most of the PHA comes thru the very popular show bull Double Stuff (who incidentally carried both TH and PHA) but with Maines allowed into the herd book there are other ways to get PHA. Many Shorthorn breeders are not testing for PHA despite the fact that the pedigree suggests they should ."
Some of the 'real-world'/commercial type Shorthorn breeders that have been recommended to me include(in no particular order):
Kaper Cattle Co. - http://www.kapercattle.com/
The Bighams at Elbee Farms - http://www.elbeefarms.com/aboutus.html
Rob Sneed (RS Shorthorns in MO) - I really like the 034X bull he bred - will be using him here, at some point, at least on 2nd-calvers.
Lakeside Shorthorns in MI - http://www.lakesideshorthorns.com/bulls.html
Currently, we're using some of the Waukaru bulls - mainly because they're readily available from Origen through our ABS rep , but as I've studied the thing out, I've been impressed with the performance and carcass testing that the Jordans have done with straightbred and Shorthorn-cross calves sired by their bulls. They also have GeneStar data available on many of their sires and bull offerings, if you're interested in incorporating those factors into your breeding plan.
Currently have one Goldmine 2109 heifer on the ground, several coming this spring, and we started using Coppertop 464 on mature cows this fall.
http://www.waukaru.net/
One, from a fellow vet who breeds some Shorthorns, in addition to Maines & Red Angus:
"The current Shorthorn breed (IMO) has 2 different components (although they try to sell it as one) the show and the real world - so I think you would need to do some due diligence to find the right bull(s).
The Shorthorns are all over the board in terms of frame score and WDA, ADG - many of the popular bulls are not at all consistent. Also there are very few real calving ease bulls in the breed, especially when you get into the "show" world. There are a couple of Shorthorn bulls that do downsize if that is an issue.
Both TH(tibial hemimelia) and PHA(pulmonary hypoplasia/anasarca) can be a problem with Shorthorns - although most of the PHA comes thru the very popular show bull Double Stuff (who incidentally carried both TH and PHA) but with Maines allowed into the herd book there are other ways to get PHA. Many Shorthorn breeders are not testing for PHA despite the fact that the pedigree suggests they should ."
Some of the 'real-world'/commercial type Shorthorn breeders that have been recommended to me include(in no particular order):
Kaper Cattle Co. - http://www.kapercattle.com/
The Bighams at Elbee Farms - http://www.elbeefarms.com/aboutus.html
Rob Sneed (RS Shorthorns in MO) - I really like the 034X bull he bred - will be using him here, at some point, at least on 2nd-calvers.
Lakeside Shorthorns in MI - http://www.lakesideshorthorns.com/bulls.html
Currently, we're using some of the Waukaru bulls - mainly because they're readily available from Origen through our ABS rep , but as I've studied the thing out, I've been impressed with the performance and carcass testing that the Jordans have done with straightbred and Shorthorn-cross calves sired by their bulls. They also have GeneStar data available on many of their sires and bull offerings, if you're interested in incorporating those factors into your breeding plan.
Currently have one Goldmine 2109 heifer on the ground, several coming this spring, and we started using Coppertop 464 on mature cows this fall.
http://www.waukaru.net/
Santas and Duhram Reds
Well-known member
The Sneeds are definitely more commerical cattleman oriented than most Shorthorn breeders. Of course, I am a little partial, they are family.
There is definitely a difference between say the Jakes Proud Jazz's, Double Stuff's, and Trump's versus the Coppertop's and Red Cloud's in the Shorthorn breed.
There is definitely a difference between say the Jakes Proud Jazz's, Double Stuff's, and Trump's versus the Coppertop's and Red Cloud's in the Shorthorn breed.
Coyote
Well-known member
This is the type of animal we like here. His daughters have lots of capacity to look after themselves and raise a good calf. He is Saskvalley Bonanza.
VanC
Well-known member
Coyote":2g5nodip said:This is the type of animal we like here. His daughters have lots of capacity to look after themselves and raise a good calf. He is Saskvalley Bonanza.
There is a poster on here called "turning grass into beef" that has some outstanding Shorthorns. I believe Bonanza is his bull.
thunder downunder
Active member
There's a number of 'real world' commercial Shorthorn breeders in Canada that I'd recommend, including Saskvalley and Muridale. You should take a look at what's about up there. Very impressive cattle.
The Shorthorns ability to adapt to a wide variety of production scenarios has been both a blessing and a curse both historicly and today.Due Dilligence is the key word in searching out Shorthorn breeding stock.
''Real World'' in the Shorthorn business can mean anything from a herd that doesn't show,being located west of the Missouri river,or a program honestly addressing the issues of the commercial cattleman and developing reliably bred seedstock to meet those needs.Two of the major issues I feel are labor and high input costs .Full time cattlemen are running more cows and smaller herd operators are working full time jobs so traits like calving ease,soundness,and good temperment are a must.There are Shorthorns that can address these issues.Feed and input costs have exploded and I think everyone is reevaluating what an efficient cow is.A month ago I watched one of the real world breeders listed above bid what I thought was a fair amount of money for a flush on a 2100lb cow,a cattleman will have to decide if a program is relavant or not in its ability to help him achieve an optimum to profit from his operation.
''Real World'' in the Shorthorn business can mean anything from a herd that doesn't show,being located west of the Missouri river,or a program honestly addressing the issues of the commercial cattleman and developing reliably bred seedstock to meet those needs.Two of the major issues I feel are labor and high input costs .Full time cattlemen are running more cows and smaller herd operators are working full time jobs so traits like calving ease,soundness,and good temperment are a must.There are Shorthorns that can address these issues.Feed and input costs have exploded and I think everyone is reevaluating what an efficient cow is.A month ago I watched one of the real world breeders listed above bid what I thought was a fair amount of money for a flush on a 2100lb cow,a cattleman will have to decide if a program is relavant or not in its ability to help him achieve an optimum to profit from his operation.
Coyote
Well-known member
Was it Muridale or Saskvalley?
2/B or not 2/B
Well-known member
It's been hard to find any 'real world' shorthorns in my area. It's disappointing to see such a huge gap between production standards and show standards. Seems to me that both sides would stand to benefit if they were more closely aligned. We love the shorties we have, but most of them have some show lines in their pedigrees. It's hard to avoid here.
Santas and Duhram Reds
Well-known member
Well I know it wasn't Jim and Stephanie, but it may have been Jim's brother who I will leave nameless. I wouldn't think so, but sometimes you never know.
Nesikep
Well-known member
Alta Cedar (Peter Boake) is one shorthorn breeder I've visited some time ago in Alberta Canada, I found he had some really nice stock.. our last SH bull was from one of the prairie provinces orignially, I can't remember whos it was, but he was a really nice bull, but huge birthweights.. I don't mind high bw's as long as I know about it and my cows are designed for it...
Bonanza is a nice bull
here's alta cedar, and it looks like they have a saskvalley there too
http://www.altacedar.com/bulls.html
I find the bulls on that page to all be quite uniform in body with a couple exceptions
I think saskvalley primo 40P there has beautiful coloration, but it's not what I find sells well in my area, so I would have to go more along the lines of Signature 19G... a dark red is what we're working toward.
Bonanza is a nice bull
here's alta cedar, and it looks like they have a saskvalley there too
http://www.altacedar.com/bulls.html
I find the bulls on that page to all be quite uniform in body with a couple exceptions
I think saskvalley primo 40P there has beautiful coloration, but it's not what I find sells well in my area, so I would have to go more along the lines of Signature 19G... a dark red is what we're working toward.
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
Coyote put up some pics of those calves we were looking at last spring.
Coyote
Well-known member
Bonanza son
Nesikep
Well-known member
are the offspring of that Bonanza son all red?.. looks pretty nice..
Coyote
Well-known member
We didn't use the red Bonanza son. He and the other bulls are in the Who's your Daddy Bull sale next April in Saskatoon
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
How are the calves from the old A'I bulls looking?
I have seen some pictures of your ''antique'' calves Coyote and would like to know your impressions on them.Are you going to use them back on your herd?
Also getting back to the''Crash Course''one of the things that is exciting to me is the new people like Lucky_P and 2/B or not 2/b and several others who post on this site who are trying out Shorthorns,many for the first time.There are a lot of choices out there and I am glad you guys chose to ad the Shorthorn influence to your operations and hope your endeavor will be succesfull.
Also getting back to the''Crash Course''one of the things that is exciting to me is the new people like Lucky_P and 2/B or not 2/b and several others who post on this site who are trying out Shorthorns,many for the first time.There are a lot of choices out there and I am glad you guys chose to ad the Shorthorn influence to your operations and hope your endeavor will be succesfull.
Coyote
Well-known member
When a guy uses the antiques a guy wonders what the cattle are going look like.
We were pleased they had smaller BW and they weaned right in the ball park with the other calves. Our Cummberland Gay Lad calves have lots of lenghth and I really like the testicle development. We are going to be using one of his sons on our heifers and try another on some cows.
We used BONNYVIEW HERO 7Z on one cow also he turned out to be a good bull calf . We will be using Hero again I think he will produce some cows with lots of guts. Charley Cambell, the guy we got the semen from said his daughters had good udders. Hero goes back to some Nupar breeding on the dam side.
We also used Mandalong Super Flag on a cow, we got twin heifers and they are going back into the herd.
We were pleased they had smaller BW and they weaned right in the ball park with the other calves. Our Cummberland Gay Lad calves have lots of lenghth and I really like the testicle development. We are going to be using one of his sons on our heifers and try another on some cows.
We used BONNYVIEW HERO 7Z on one cow also he turned out to be a good bull calf . We will be using Hero again I think he will produce some cows with lots of guts. Charley Cambell, the guy we got the semen from said his daughters had good udders. Hero goes back to some Nupar breeding on the dam side.
We also used Mandalong Super Flag on a cow, we got twin heifers and they are going back into the herd.
Nesikep
Well-known member
I like the guy in the middle picture
