Cow Teeth Interpretation ?

[Stocker Steve]

Cows are sold as "broken mouth" here if they are missing a tooth, or the incisors are very short, or the incisors are totally gone.
Risk takers then bid on these BM cows based on their body condition and the width of their muzzle. Often they are bred cows that have been trucked east from the Dakotas.

I have started to mouth some of my cows and was amazed to find cows in good body condition with out incisors at all. Is this some what common, or is mostly due to your pasture grass quality ? Is it safe to assume these gummers are over 12 years old, or ?

 

[dun]

Is this some what common, or is mostly due to your pasture grass quality ? Is it safe to assume these gummers are over 12 years old, or ?

Forage and age in combination with genetics are the controlling factors.
Age alone won;t make them gummers, I've seen young cows that were broken mouthed, but mostly old cows will also be. Granny didn;t become broken mouth (missing teeth) till she was 20. Within 2 years she didn;t hardly have a tooth left.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Forage and age in combination with genetics are the controlling factors.

My thin cows are almost always framy angus on course hay...

Herefords don't seem to need teeth. :nod:

 

[Aaron]

I mouthed cows for a few years, 10 years ago. Wondered if it made a difference for this area. It didn't. Only time a cow has done really poorly here was one that was 16 and hardly had anything left for molars. But in short grass country, it is an issue.

 

[Son of Butch]

Little over a week ago came across a fun fact...
crossbreds had 30% advantage in tooth length/size and retention over straight bred cattle.
I think average age in study was 7-8 yrs old, but can't rightly remember for sure.
2-3 weeks ago nice group of solid mouth 11 yr old cows sold at sale barn.
I never would have guessed they were that old had I not been told.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I mouthed cows for a few years, 10 years ago. Wondered if it made a difference for this area. It didn't. Only time a cow has done really poorly here was one that was 16 and hardly had anything left for molars. But in short grass country, it is an issue.

So they stay till they can't git around the pasture ?

 

[Aaron]

I mouthed cows for a few years, 10 years ago. Wondered if it made a difference for this area. It didn't. Only time a cow has done really poorly here was one that was 16 and hardly had anything left for molars. But in short grass country, it is an issue.

So they stay till they can't git around the pasture ?

No, I never keep any cow that has a chronic limp or arthritis, no matter how good they are. Being able to move freely and active is definitely up on the list of major requirements. The cow in question just couldn't maintain condition anymore - and if they can't, they won't survive the winter here without being babied.

 

[Supa Dexta]

And Ontario not being too different than here - our cows dont have to walk miles upon miles anyways. A cow only has to go a few hundred yards to the next field, so I dont think they break down from travel as much. Good green lush grass is easy on the teeth too.

I can't help but think new age balers have to be harder on teeth though, packing it so tight. I feed with a slicer though, so they pull apart easily.

 

[Aaron]

And Ontario not being too different than here - our cows dont have to walk miles upon miles anyways. A cow only has to go a few hundred yards to the next field, so I dont think they break down from travel as much. Good green lush grass is easy on the teeth too.

I've got a couple pastures where the girls get their miles in everyday walking to and from water.

 

[Supa Dexta]

My max distance ends up being about1500 ft between watering holes/ tubs and I dont even like it that far. They may go twice a day, but seems the smaller and weaker don't have a good chance before the herd is on the move back again.

 

[Aaron]

My max distance ends up being about1500 ft between watering holes/ tubs and I dont even like it that far. They may go twice a day, but seems the smaller and weaker don't have a good chance before the herd is on the move back again.

The further I can get the cattle to walk to water, the happier I am - keeps their bodies and feet in great shape. Worst feet on cattle I have ever seen are those that have to walk little distance between feed and water in soft soils. Favorite pasture is my biggest pasture where water is 1/2 mile away from their 'preferred' grazing area. All hard clay loam soil that keeps their feet in great shape. They walk back and forth at least 4 times a day. My biggest calves come off that pasture - not overly fat, but toned with good muscle. Many places around here you can buy large continuous tracts of land that go for miles - that would be a dream for me.

 

[Stocker Steve]

The cow in question just couldn't maintain condition anymore - and if they can't, they won't survive the winter here without being babied.

I cull about one per year that is slow moving. No idea how old they are. They are usually herfs that can still maintain condition on forage. They still move faster than the grass.
I cull a couple BM mouth cows each year that have trouble holding condition. No idea how old they are, but there is also a breed and form tendency here.
I have some fat cows that were running age when I bought them, so they are teen agers now. I assume they have teeth, and I save every heifer out of them.

 

[Nesikep]

Like Aaron, I wish I could make my cows walk more... In many pastures they aren't more than 200 yard away from the water... I try and make them walk a little in the winter by feeding them as far away from water as I can manage... I might get it up to 3-400 yards. I like it for the same reasons too.. keeps their hooves good, though I find that genetics plays a VERY large role there, and keeps them a little fit and toned as they get ready to calve.

About hooves, Yes, herefords definitely need to do more walking to keep the toenails pretty... Since I hardly have any Herf left in my herd, I might clip hooves on one or two animals once every few years.. usually ones that have been stuck in a corral for longer than normal.

 

[Aaron]

Like Aaron, I wish I could make my cows walk more... In many pastures they aren't more than 200 yard away from the water... I try and make them walk a little in the winter by feeding them as far away from water as I can manage... I might get it up to 3-400 yards. I like it for the same reasons too.. keeps their hooves good, though I find that genetics plays a VERY large role there, and keeps them a little fit and toned as they get ready to calve.

About hooves, Yes, herefords definitely need to do more walking to keep the toenails pretty... Since I hardly have any Herf left in my herd, I might clip hooves on one or two animals once every few years.. usually ones that have been stuck in a corral for longer than normal.

Genetics play the major role, but just like dairy cows in freestall barns that need to be trimmed twice per year, environment can throw a big wrench into the mix.