Cow not chewing her cud - spitting out cud

[bigbluegrass]

I have a cow, calved on June 25 - so 10/11 days ago. For about the past week she has been losing her cud or spitting it out. I will see her out in the pasture with a mouthful of cud, not chewing it, just standing there with both cheeks full and saliva dripping from her chin. I have seen several (a dozen or so) chunks of it out in the pasture and one in the mineral feeder. I had the vet out on 7/3. He did a very thorough exam. He checked her teeth several times and said they all felt fine. He didn't feel any sores in her mouth. He stuck his hand down her throat (up to his elbow) and couldn't feel anything. He put a tube down her throat, no obstructions. He blew into it and smelled it - everything checked out. Palpated her, said everything felt fine. Temp was 101.5. He listened to her rumen and stomach and it all sounded good. Heart rate was good. Breathing was good. Cow eats grain fine and swallows grain fine. She has an appetite. She eats grass and has been grazing with everyone else. The vet gave her half a tube of probiotics and said to give her the rest next week. He did a fecal sample and said he only saw one egg. He said that is not a problem. He said he can't find anything wrong with her. Said he could float her teeth, but he has never done that to a cow before. He said she needs to chew her food better!

Has anyone ever seen anything like this? I have seen cows lose a chunk of cud on occasion, but never like this. She doesn't look like she has lost too much weight yet, but I am afraid if she keeps it up she will get thin pretty fast. Her left side where the rumen is never looks as full as it used to. It has been a few days since the vet looked at her and she is still doing the same thing. He said to call him if she gets worse, but really her condition is unchanged. Her calf looks good. She is milking plenty. Cow is 6 years old. She looks a little depressed. Any ideas? :?:

 

[3MR]

Im curious what a depressed cow looks like. ;-)

Maybe she is just a picky eater, I wouldn't worry about it unless you see her starting to loose significant body condition or her condition falls observably lower than your other cattle in her age group. Give the probiotics a chance.

 

[chippie]

Your may ask your vet about using a speculum to hold her mouth open so that he can look inside. There may be a problem that he could not feel.

A cow will not lose it's cud because it is a picky eater. I bet that she has something going on in her mouth that the vet did not find, and she can't chew her cud. A cow has to chew it's cud, it is part of it's digestive cycle/system.

 

[inyati13]

Hey, bigbluegrass, you know my cow Big Bertha. Two years ago she stopped eating with the enthusiasim that she normally had. She would go lay down while the other cows were eating. My vet checked her and decided she had some indigestion so to speak. He also gave her the probiotics. It took about three days but she got back to normal. Maybe something is not keeping up in that complex digestive system and she gives up her cud. My two cents worth.

But chippie has the best chance of being the most helpful because of her experience. I applaud you chippie, I really do. I am not patronizing, I am impressed with your resources when it comes to cattle.

 

[wbvs58]

Sounds like your vet did a pretty good exam, got his hands dirty etc. The thing that comes to mind with the duration after calving is left displaced abomasum. That can change the shape of the left side of the cow as well.
Run it past your vet and see what he thinks.
Ken

 

[inyati13]

Sounds like your vet did a pretty good exam, got his hands dirty etc. The thing that comes to mind with the duration after calving is left displaced abomasum. That can change the shape of the left side of the cow as well.
Run it past your vet and see what he thinks.
Ken

bigbluegrass, Ken's thought is along the lines of what I was driving at. If something in that digestive system is out of proper order, then the feed back the cow is getting is not to provide more input, thus, rejecting the cud.

 

[ousoonerfan22]

When the cow is standing there drooling does she have her mouth open and seem to be wallowing her tongue around? We have a cow doing that but she's not spitting her cud out. I've seen her grazing,chewing her cud, drinking water but acts like her mouth is tender when trying to eat sweet feed out of a trough, she has lost a lot of weight especially in her rear. The vet here couldn't find anything wrong with her.

 

[chippie]

Good point.
What puzzled me is that it appears that she can't chew her cud.

I will see her out in the pasture with a mouthful of cud, not chewing it, just standing there with both cheeks full and saliva dripping from her chin.

A cow does very little chewing when it is grazing or eating grain. When it grazes, it wraps it's tongue around the grass and tears it off by pulling it against it's bottom incisors, it sort of rolls it around and swallows it. When a cow eats grain, it just scarfs it down. It does not chew like a horse.

That is why I suggested a visual examination. She may have something stuck in a nook or cranny that causes pain when she chews and makes her drool.
Of course we weren't there and did not see what the vet actually did.

A cow with a left displaced abomasum will lose it's appetite, will not try to chew it's cud and may have diarrhea.

 

[cow pollinater]

Ken may have nailed it. I've seen a few DA's where they spit the cud out. The rest of it sounds about right for one. The timing is perfect... 11 days in milk. You can also spot them before they "ping" so even if you vet checked she may still have it and it doesn't make him wrong.
The real easy choice is to cull her before she goes downhill. You can also check her for DA fairly easily or have your vet do it. You can also rope her, roll her over, get ropes on front and back legs and shake her back and forth a few times and see what happens. A lot of times it will go back in place.

 

[bigbluegrass]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Chippie - I held her mouth open. The vet was here for about an hour and for 15 minutes of that (at least) he had his hand in her mouth. I held her mouth open so he could get a good feel. He went in 4 times and he looked inside as well. He kept commenting on how good her teeth felt and how good her mouth felt. I suspect (and I know the vet did as well) there is something in there that makes it painful for her to chew. She moved her tongue fine. Might be something caught in her teeth? I don't know. Maybe she ate something rough and scraped the roof of her mouth and it didn't look as bad as it feels. I don't know. But she definitely acts like she just doesn't want to chew. She eats grass fine, but like you pointed out, there is very little chewing involved in that. Mostly just swallowing. She eats grain fine, but once again little chewing involved. I keep coming back to her mouth. If she doesn't get better by Monday I think I will have him back out for another look. Thanks for the picture of the speculum. I will ask to see if he maybe has one.

The vet did check for DA by pinging. He pinged on both sides. He also palpated her, not sure if he could check that way. I haven't ruled DA out. But the vet said that she didn't have DA. I think he may be correct since she still has an appetite. She eats like normal, she just won't chew her cud. I have only seen her with very loose stool. But that is pretty normal with this cow right after calving. She is the family milk cow (Jersey) and she usually gets a little loose when I put her back on grain - even when I start her slowly. If I push on her left side it feels normal (mushy - like the rumen normally feels). Doesn't a DA cow normally look bloated? Her left side is just sunken in and she never really looks very full. Normally she always looks a little bloated on the left side. She has a very large gut. What does DA look like in the early stages? Any early warning signs?

She drools with her mouth closed and the cud in her cheeks. She does not wallow her tongue around. She drinks water fine. She eats fine. She just won't chew her cud.

I will give her a few more days to see what happens. I think Monday or Tuesday I will call the vet again if she isn't any better and see what he says. I will run this by him an see what he says. Obviously something is wrong. She will loose weight and die if she doesn't chew her cud, that I know for sure.

Thanks for all the ideas. Keep them coming. You folks are a great help at brainstorming some of these odd cow problems. Sometimes cows just have to be difficult!

 

[wbvs58]

Bigbluegrass, here is a quote from Veterinary Medicine by Blood and Radostis re LDA, "On visual inspection the left lateral abdomen is usually "slab sided" because the rumen is smaller than normal and displaced medially."
Ken

 

[inyati13]

bigbluegrass, I wonder if there is something between a couple of molars. Does a vet have something almost like floss to get down between the teeth with? That may be what is needed. Sounds like you got a good vet. My dog blue gets stuff between his incisors and it drives him crazy until I get it out.

 

[bigbluegrass]

Update: Cow is acting better today. I did see a new glob of cud in the pasture, so in the last 24 hours she lost another chunk. She ate her grain fine this morning, which she has been doing. She pooped in the barn (which is normally frowned upon here) - but in her case I was glad to see her poop firming up. It wasn't watery, but still a little looser than the other cows. It was pretty green in color. I will keep an eye on her.

 

[bigbluegrass]

Im curious what a depressed cow looks like. ;-)

Well she was up on the roof of the barn and I found a letter in the barn saying she couldn't go on any longer.... I was able to talk her down - this time... :lol: :lol: :lol: :help: :hide:

 

[3MR]

Im curious what a depressed cow looks like. ;-)

Well she was up on the roof of the barn and I found a letter in the barn saying she couldn't go on any longer.... I was able to talk her down - this time... :lol: :lol: :lol: :help: :hide:

Thank heavens you were able to talk her down this time. I usually like my beef to hang themselves. Just makes it easier. :lol2:

@ Chippie; my picky eater comment was a joke. :lol:

Glad to hear she is getting better bigbluegrass, sounds like the probiotics just needed some time to do its job.

 

[bigbluegrass]

Im curious what a depressed cow looks like. ;-)

Well she was up on the roof of the barn and I found a letter in the barn saying she couldn't go on any longer.... I was able to talk her down - this time... :lol: :lol: :lol: :help: :hide:

Thank heavens you were able to talk her down this time. I usually like my beef to hang themselves. Just makes it easier. :lol2:

@ Chippie; my picky eater comment was a joke. :lol:

Glad to hear she is getting better bigbluegrass, sounds like the probiotics just needed some time to do its job.

:lol: Hanging would be more convenient and a lot less carcass damage - maybe I should tie a lead rope from the rafters just in case she has another bad day :lol: :lol: :help:

 

[3MR]

LOL< No your thinking ahead. :lol:

 

[dun]

I'm sure glad the came up with probiotics in a tube. We used to have to try to steal a cud from one and then even harder put it in anothers mouth. Both are very hard on the fingers!

 

[bigbluegrass]

I'm sure glad the came up with probiotics in a tube. We used to have to try to steal a cud from one and then even harder put it in anothers mouth. Both are very hard on the fingers!

That sounds like a rough, messy smelly job. Can't imagine how I would get this cow to swallow another cows cud if she won't even swallow her own. I'm sure glad they put it in a tube also!

 

[alisonb]

Glad she seems to be doing OK. If she relapses I would be inclined to think that she has a stomach blockage rather than DA which is usually associated with quite a bit of pain and discomfort.
Plastic, baling twine or whatever(most times it is spat out in the cud), enters the rumen easily enough but then has to go through the small opening of the reticulum and into the omasum, where it stays causing a blockage. The hay has nowhere to go so she continuously spits out her cud, smaller pieces of hay and grain may be ingested but the animal slowly starts loosing weight and always seems hungry - for good reason. Able to drink water and will have a loose stool.