cow lease

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beef guy

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Hi everybody im just wondering my neighbor approached me about me leasing his cows he is getting old i could graze the cows on his land not sure how much he would charge me and also he wants me to calf them he would provide the hay has anyone done this he wants me to come up with some numbers
 
Hi everybody im just wondering my neighbor approached me about me leasing his cows he is getting old i could graze the cows on his land not sure how much he would charge me and also he wants me to calf them he would provide the hay has anyone done this he wants me to come up with some numbers
Welcome to CT! What kind does he have and how many? You need to add your location to your profile. Makes it a lot easier for folks to help you or answer a question if they know about where you are.
 
He has about 100 cows black angus
Welcome to CT!
What is your level of cattle experience? Calving out 100 cows could have a sharp learning curve if you've never calved before.
As far as leasing goes. I bought out my land lords herd when I was getting started.
I did all the work, paid all the expenses except pasture rent. We did it over 5 years. I got 20% of the calf sales and salvage value of the culls the first year, 40% the second, 60% the 3rd, 80% the 4th, and 100% the fifth. We agreed to maintain the same number of cows throughout the term of the lease.
 
He has about 100 cows black angus
As they age out, die, get hurt, sick or don't get with calf, who buys the replacements? I'd say if he pays all other expense; wormer, meds, vet bills, mineral supplements etc., then tell him you will do all the work, he pays all the costs, and you split the calf crop 50/50.
 
I have calved out 120 cows myself for 15 years im not worried about calving i was just wondering on the proceeds and all the bills and stuff and how we both make a profit he cannot sell them for at least 3 years due to obligations he has i think i want to pick out or buy the replacements myself
 
I don't have any specific numbers or methods, just some suggestions. You said he is getting old. We old people seem to forget things or get confused sometimes. I would definitely want something in writing that defined the terms. Not just a conversation you both agreed to.

You are going to lease the cows, but he can't sell them for three years? i don't need to know the details, but I would try to ensure that whatever that situation is, there is not someone else that has any control of the cows or claim of ownership during that time.

I would think about all the expenses and income and events that could occur during that time and write those down with who pays and what percentage. Income that comes in - who gets what and what percentage. Unusual events- cows die from lightening strike, you become disabled, he dies, etc. What happens? Those things could be part of a written agreement, or just a list to help you arrive at a fair definition of how expenses and income are shared, some fairness in sharing risk and sharing reward, etc.

He already owns the cows, so should receive enough to compensate for that investment. You would be putting your labor into it and should receive enough to cover that. In other words, think about all the parts and pieces and possibilities to help define the deal.

I was confused by statement that you would lease the cows and graze his land, but he would provide the hay and wants you to calve them. Seems like if you lease the cows, you could also lease the grazing rights on his land, and purchase hay from him if he has hay for sale. What happens if he has no hay in year 2? If you lease the cows, seems like to me that you are responsible for them and would graze them where ever is best for you and get hay wherever is best for you. Try to avoid the situation where the old guy still has an emotional attachment so strong that he starts telling you what to do, how to do it and when to do it. That's what we old guys might tend to do. You don't want to function as a hired hand who also shares a large portion of the risk in an agreement.

I said I was confused and probably don't have the correct view of the situation, so will go back to where I started. Think about everything and be sure you and he are on the same page and that enough is written to protect both of you from any bad and reward both of you for any good proportionate to the contribution each makes. Maybe he should just hire you to do the work and manage the cattle and pay in either replacements or dollars.
 
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Yeah, I have a hard time with this concept of leasing cows; you can't be butting heads during drought... or cattle culling, fencing work, equipment repairs, losses, feed and pasturing decisions. Just the written cattle lease would be an undertaking- specifically capturing and addressing all circumstances (which ARE a lot, besides the percentage takes or inputted losses). Land leasing without cattle on it, great!.....or becoming his personal ranch assistant- cattleman laborer w/ monthly SALARY sounds better-safer. Cattle leasing during a drought, predators or disease....the cattle would have to be mine. The first bad year, loss and lack of expected money-income...you'd both want out from each other...debating each others decisions and pointing fingers. Elderly people change their mind, re-invent history or claim things.... they actually do really believe what happened in their dream and can pass a lie detector test. I'd buy his cattle outright and lease his land for 5 to 10 to 20 year contract either transferrable or void upon his death.
 
Hi everybody im just wondering my neighbor approached me about me leasing his cows he is getting old i could graze the cows on his land not sure how much he would charge me and also he wants me to calf them he would provide the hay has anyone done this he wants me to come up with some numbers
Beef Guy, He wants you to come up with the plan and numbers. If you're interested (there's no problem)....just jot down what "you want" what you'd be responsible for, what he'd be responsible for and what you'd gain or lose- your benefits together and your losses together, how to distribute or share them. Then start writing out a lease. I've written several so I can guarantee once you and/or a friend/attorney...start writing the "cattle lease agreement"...they'll be a lot more details to emcompass than you originally thought. In fact by taking the action in writing the lease, even by hand/pen...you might discover, extra work and lacking parts....where you don't want to share a partnership. Or you might find, it's wonderful for you...for both of you making money, enjoying the cattle. You won't know until you write up the lease agreement... to include fencing, needed materials, gas-oil, maintenence, labor, snow plowing, feed, pasture rotations, water, drought, mud, poor road re-surfacing, fallen trees, weed-pest control, theft, accidents with more torn broken fences, sick cattle, cattle escapes, roofing-hinging-corral repairs-updates-improvements, sale-barn transport. These are just a few..... quickly off the top of my head...there's tons more details/circumstances to be added.
 
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I can't see a lot of value in 'leasing his cows' to run on his property, and HIS hay vs........ becoming his ranch manager with a specified contracted salary or % of the calf crop. The latter sounds a lot simpler, as by definition, you taking care (labor) of HIS cows on HIS property means he pays expenses, and you would just be part of the expense. Whether he pays you real money or in calves or a combo of both, is a relatively minor thing to work out.

But, becoming his manager, who pays for any of your medical bills should you get hurt in the performance of your overseer duties over on his property?
 
Elderly people dream things and reality gets clouded...they cannot be held accountable for that.


That, is swinging a pretty wide lasso young man.

Maybe when I get 'old' I'll see things different but at 73, I still know my dreams are just dreams (and it's a dang good thing they are)

But, we'll move on.
 
Welcome!

I look at 'the other half' of the cattle equation more than 'the cow' portion, but I can do both. By the other half, I'm refering to pasture management. My approach might seem a bit different, but it makes sense in the long run. I approach 'the system' mor from an aspect that I use the cows as a tool to manage the forage base and less of an approach of managing the cows, directly at least. There is value in doing both. The pasture management often gets overlooked. On the surface, it seems you will be much freer to manage the pasture here than manage the cows. It kinda looks like there might be a lot of strings attached to the 'cow management'.
 
I never heard of leasing cow, but I have a dozer, and some years back I made a deal with an operator, he would run it, pay half of everything, fuel, service break downs ect, then we would split the profit, it would have worked ok if everyone would have done like the deal said, if there was a break down he would haul it to my house for me to fix and pay for.
He made money I didn't.
Make sure you have a fair deal and everyone holds up their end.
I know it wasn't cows, I just put this out there.
 
As others have said. Make sure it's on paper and signed. I would suggest treat each thing like a different deal.
-If he's got pasture then come up with a pasture rent deal. (Per head per day with a set minimum amount as a safe guard so u don't run too few animals on his pasture).
- hay land ( per acre or put it up on shares)
- and the lease agreement. Finding something you are both happy on this might be tricky. Good luck. Calf share is a good way to go. And have a buyout price at the end or factor in a bit every year plus interest.

We just got finished a 3 year calf share deal.
I covered all expenses and labour and he retained ownership of cows in the end.
I had wished our agreement was more detailed. Never assume anything is common sense. Such as an open cow is a cull and is no longer my responsibility to feed. Twins are also part of the calf crop to be shared . Can't believe I had to have some of those conversations. Anyways good luck and if it's all on paper and signed you both can go back to that original document when/if disagreements arise.
 

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