Corn price=breed change?

[andybob]

With the trend toward cattle that are easy keepers, not needing grain for maintenance, possibly using terminal sires more to meet market demands are most commercial breeders looking at alternative breeds or preferring to rather use proven bulls within their chosen breed to achieve their goals eg; Pharo bulls? http://www.thebeefsite.com/news/21364/l ... h-republic

 

[MikeC]

From what I understand about the digestive process and efficiencies in cattle...........

If they are "Biologically Efficient", they are "Biologically Efficient" no matter the food source. Some cattle simply take less feed to put on muscle. Just like people.

Having said that, there are efficient cattle in most every breed. No need to change breeds.

Just find the ones within your breed that are.

Another advertisement for "Forage Efficient" cattle? :roll:

 

[novatech]

From what I understand about the digestive process and efficiencies in cattle...........

If they are "Biologically Efficient", they are "Biologically Efficient" no matter the food source. Some cattle simply take less feed to put on muscle. Just like people.

Having said that, there are efficient cattle in most every breed. No need to change breeds.

Just find the ones within your breed that are.

Another advertisement for "Forage Efficient" cattle? :roll:

I could not agree more. With DNA testing there is no longer the excuse that feed efficiency tests are to expensive.
I would think that with production prices going up and cattle prices going down this would be a key element in seed stock breeding programs.

 

[dun]

With the trend toward cattle that are easy keepers, not needing grain for maintenance, possibly using terminal sires more to meet market demands are most commercial breeders looking at alternative breeds or preferring to rather use proven bulls within their chosen breed to achieve their goals eg; Pharo bulls? http://www.thebeefsite.com/news/21364/l ... h-republic

Red Angus have a maintenance energy EPD. That may help with bull selection

 

[greenwillowhereford II]

The American Hereford Association is keeping a weather eye on two or three on-going feed efficiency studies including the Universtity of Missouri, and I believe it was West Virginia. Yes, there is a lot of variation within breeds, but so far on the average, in these studies, Herefords are more efficient than the other breeds.

 

[novatech]

The American Hereford Association is keeping a weather eye on two or three on-going feed efficiency studies including the Universtity of Missouri, and I believe it was West Virginia. Yes, there is a lot of variation within breeds, but so far on the average, in these studies, Herefords are more efficient than the other breeds.

What other breeds? Just the ones in the test or all other breeds?

 

[Jake]

Herefords have been known for decades to be efficient cattle. If you talk to some of the show guys its alot easier to "burn" a herefords gut than one of the continental breed when starting them on a hot corn diet.

One of the reason herefords and hereford cross cows dominate areas of the country such as New Mexico and Arizona. The high intake breeds can't survive in scarce climates.

So to ME these studies are just reiterating what we already know...

 

[Elder Statesman]

Herefords have been known for decades to be efficient cattle. If you talk to some of the show guys its alot easier to "burn" a herefords gut than one of the continental breed when starting them on a hot corn diet.

One of the reason herefords and hereford cross cows dominate areas of the country such as New Mexico and Arizona. The high intake breeds can't survive in scarce climates.

So to ME these studies are just reiterating what we already know...

We may already know it, but It is nice to have some data to back up those claims. Some commerical guys "know" that with Hereford cows you get cancer eye and prolapses. At least that is what they heard from their neighbor 25 years ago. They haven't "learned" that a lot of those traits have been corrected by the good breeders over the past 15-20 years. The top commercial breeders are a pretty sharp lot these days and want a little bit more proof than just being told something over the gate. Solid data is the key to marketing.

 

[greenwillowhereford II]

Two specific that I recall were Angus and Simmental. It was the other breeds in the tests.

I hope I'm not irritating you guys, but what I'm saying is that I have wanted for years to have that data that Statesman refers to, and now they are working on producing the proof to back up those claims. I'll try to take the time over the next few days to go back and reread the particulars, and see if I can find more links or info if you care to see it.

Yes, Jake, you and I have known this for years, but it's nice to have something to back up our claims when folks ask for it.

 

[auctionboy]

Is this about the cow herd being efficient or calves gaining in the lot? Some are talking about animals puting on muscle when they seem to be talking about the cow herd. Cows need to put on and take of fat not muscle. I thought easy keepers was an old idea, not something people are just thinking about with high corn, in fact it maybe the first principle in cow/calf production. Also who needs DNA tests when year in year out and even buy the day they are accessing there cattle and culling for body score. DNA tests are Justs like epds and other ways people that don't know cattle want to skip the learning and pay for the answers, the thing is there is more to it then those numbers.

 

[greenwillowhereford II]

Both. Some of the data is from bull tests, some from cowherd, some from feedlot (see other discussions with Harris Ranch info.) The biggest test going right now (Harris Ranch) takes them from birth to slaughter. 13# heavier weaning, higher adg on less feed.

 

[Elder Statesman]

DNA tests are Justs like epds and other ways people that don't know cattle want to skip the learning and pay for the answers, the thing is there is more to it then those numbers.

I will agree with you that there is more than the numbers. And the science may be getting a little ahead of the curve. But as a seedstock producer, I like to have as many marketing tools as possible to use. Especially when I have customers who want those numbers to help them make their choice. On the flip side, I have customers who don't care about ultrasound or EPD's.

When I get ready to select a herd bull or females, I want as much data as I can get. I use those numbers to trim down the selection. Once I find those cattle whose data will work for me, then I go to the visual. While you may be able to eyeball cattle and tell which one has better carcass traits, I sure can't.

That being said, I don't take all the data at face value. Testing situations and breeder reputation plays into how much weight I give the numbers.

 

[auctionboy]

DNA tests are Justs like epds and other ways people that don't know cattle want to skip the learning and pay for the answers, the thing is there is more to it then those numbers.

I will agree with you that there is more than the numbers. And the science may be getting a little ahead of the curve. But as a seedstock producer, I like to have as many marketing tools as possible to use. Especially when I have customers who want those numbers to help them make their choice. On the flip side, I have customers who don't care about ultrasound or EPD's.

When I get ready to select a herd bull or females, I want as much data as I can get. I use those numbers to trim down the selection. Once I find those cattle whose data will work for me, then I go to the visual. While you may be able to eyeball cattle and tell which one has better carcass traits, I sure can't.

That being said, I don't take all the data at face value. Testing situations and breeder reputation plays into how much weight I give the numbers.

agreed

 

[auctionboy]

corn price= breed change? I guess that depends on how long you think corn based ethanol production will continue in this country. I wouldn't make long term changes, but easy keepers without grain should be the goal anyway.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Kerry is a dual-purpose breed that people might want to examine. They are an ancient breed and they can survive where others will starve to death, eating what modern cows refuse. Kerries are smaller than most modern cattle, cows weighing about 500 -600 lbs. and crossbreeding to Kerry bulls should be wonderful for first-calf heifers. They are the only breed that has not been bred-up to be high-input high-output animals. They will increase the milk when crossed with most beef breeds. They will make dairy herds have much more grass-fed tendencies. They are good homestead animals and make very good family milk cows and will give about two gallons per day. There are no Kerries for sale since they are almost extinct, but you can buy the semen. They are similar to Dexter but they do not have the bulldog/dwarfism gene that Dexters have. I have four Kerry heifers and a Kerry bull, and I'm going to buy hereford heifers to go with them so the hereford heifers will produce thrifty little black baldie calves since Kerries are black.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Fullblood Limis, just don't get the larger framed cattle. Don't take as much feed for a fullblood limi because they use it better than other breeds.

 

[EAT BEEF]

I don't know how long corn based ethanol will last,but I don't think we will see corn prices back to where they were pre ethanol.Inputs costs are to high and demand from places like China for fert will continue to rise imo.

Andybob I think a maternal based cowherd bred to terminal sires is the way to go no matter what happens but those with maternal based genetics to sell may do very well. It would be nice to have some money in a time of economic downturn.

 

[Aaron]

I will add my 2 cents. I don't know about anyone in the US, but in Canada, I am am noticing the difference high grain prices are making. No longer are straightbred Herefords getting the short end of the stick. I have been to a couple of sales where Hereford steers fetched a 5 to 10 cent premium over everything else, up to 15 cent premium over Char and Simmental cattle.

Buyers are saying they don't want to feed any more grain than they have too. Feed efficiency is top priority. British cattle are floating to the top and the Continentals are getting hammered. The market will probably switch around for grasser cattle, but if grain keeps up in price, I think we are going to see a gradual shift away from big Continentals and big carcasses, towards smaller British breed carcasses. :cowboy:

 

[Jake]

Here in the states it's becoming very obvious that the packers no longer want these monsterous carcasses. They are docking carcasses that are too big and paying a premiuim for the smaller fatter carcasses. A big reason for the fatier carcasses being a premium is that animal fat is now being turned into biodiesel and is trading right around the $.50 mark where a year ago it was $.07. If input cost continue to rise a smart rancher is not going to be able to feed the larger higher input cattle. In our area and northward we're seeing a huge trend in reducing frame size and producing more maternally based cattle that can handle their own with little to no supplementation.

 

[S&S Farms]

Both. Some of the data is from bull tests, some from cowherd, some from feedlot (see other discussions with Harris Ranch info.) The biggest test going right now (Harris Ranch) takes them from birth to slaughter. 13# heavier weaning, higher adg on less feed.

I think those were baldies that were 13 lbs heavier.

I like to have as many tools to aid in my buying and in helping me sell my own cattle. I still think DNA testing is in its infancy it will get better as time goes on and get more accurate. An example in Herefords is testing polleds to see if they are heterozygous or homozygous ( I know spelling ) when they can only give you a 40 percent accuracy if the test is correct then I do not think it is wise to spend that money on that test.

Jeff