Confused about dying calf

[angiefettig]

I posted last month under "white muscle disease" about a 4 month old calf that I thought had WMD. After 6 days and lots of research we bought BoSe but it was too late. We did give our other four young calves a shot as prevention because two of them seemed iffy. They started grazing again and they seemed healthy until two days ago. We found another calf (the twin of the one who died) down with the exact same symptoms as the first. We immediately gave her a shot of BoSe and she was up and grazing within 24 hours (we assumed the shot I gave her the first time didn't go in correctly cuz it was the first I'd ever done and some squirted out). Here's where it gets weird. Down Saturday, up Sunday, really down Monday. I found her laying completely on her side today, breathing and blinking but otherwise not moving. She appeared to be bloated and I heard some rumblings in her tummy. Her breathing seemed shallow and labored. I've been researching a bit again about other problems it might be (acidosis, listeriosis) but we don't know what to do. We almost shot her tonight but want to know if there's any hope. Here are some of her symptoms as of the past month: really watery, green/blackish diarrhea (no worms visible), then as of last couple weeks horse-apple-type poop; reluctance to get up but will if prodded; couldn't stand up though she tried, but good appetite (WMD?). She was out to pasture but about a month ago was brought in to barnyard and given grain (with trace selenium) because we were scared of WMD. I don't know how much she was able to graze and we just gave them hay a little over a week ago (acidosis). I'm confused (new at this with tiny "operation") and sad for her suffering. Any suggestions? Sorry I was so long winded.

Angie

 

[angie1]

What did your vet have to say about the symptoms the calves are presenting? Did you ever ave the first one posted? If this one you have down gets euthanized, you may want to wait until a vet can do it si s/he can look at the calf and get the information you need to stop this. You have a small operation, you know that 2 calves dead take out quite a bite. Let us know, we are always curious and wanting to learn more.

Good Luck!

 

[milkmaid]

And your vet said....?

 

[angiefettig]

It was too late to call the vet yesterday so I'll call today. When we called about the first downed calf, he didn't have any straight forward advice. He suggested electrolytes, coccidiosis treatment, get him on a soft bed of hay, may want to try selenium. He never mentioned possible WMD or any other disease.

 

[HerefordSire]

It was too late to call the vet yesterday so I'll call today. When we called about the first downed calf, he didn't have any straight forward advice. He suggested electrolytes, coccidiosis treatment, get him on a soft bed of hay, may want to try selenium. He never mentioned possible WMD or any other disease.

I think vets are generally a waste of time and money when it comes to cattle unless you have to purchase precription drugs. The only difference in, with or without vet assistance, in my experience, has been more than several thousand dollars. The cow mortality rate appears to be the same. About all the vet has done for me is someone to talk to and those are mighty expensive words. With the amount of money I have spent on vet bills, I could have replaced the cows that died and invested the proceeds.

 

[DavisBeefmasters]

You could be fighting a whole host of things...

...could you take a fecal sample to the vet and have them run some tests?

...I would see if the vet can come out, 1 calf is a loss, 2 with similar symptoms if twins may be a genetic thing, but you have 3 calves in the mix with "the cruds"

Vets (and I mean good vets) are worth their weight in gold and won't waste your money if an animal can't be saved, etc.

 

[angiefettig]

I called him yesterday and he said that before he tried to diagnose her she should be warmed up and gotten to where she's eating again. I fed her milk from a bottle yesterday and some grain. She seemed eager to eat and drink for a while but wouldn't get up or even hold her head up. I covered her with a comforter and secured it down. After she ate a little she let out some good gas at both ends. He said he didn't suspect acidosis. I didn't realize I could call a vet after office hours. I suppose they're a bit like doctors that way.

 

[angie1]

I called him yesterday and he said that before he tried to diagnose her she should be warmed up and gotten to where she's eating again.

My advise is to find a new vet. Thats BS.

 

[Beefy]

it sounds like it could be any number of things.

interesting that the calves are related. could be something they got from their mom like bvd or could be something contagious they caught from one another.

black/green diarrhea is never good and hard to recover from. a lot of times it can be viral.

bloating is not uncommon from laying out on the side for long periods of time.

horse apple poop can be from dehydration or eating a lot of grasshay.

just b/c you cant see worms doesnt mean they arent there. but deworming a weak animal is pretty hard on them too.

what is the history on the calves? what kind of condition have they been in? i realize they are four months but were they healthy as calves? for instance,can joint ill be ruled out?

just a few ideas.

 

[angiefettig]

After reading some of your posts about vets, I had a feeling that a new vet might be a good idea. She died. But thanks for all of your two-cents-es. They both were healthy as calves and came from a great dairy farm. I'm not sure what joint ill is, but they never seemed to have any physical problems as far a walking or getting around.

 

[dun]

If you call them in time then cow and calf mortality will be lower as they will be more likely to pull through. People get p'od because they wait until the cow is down and taking its final dying breaths before calling the vet and then he isnt able to save it and they are ungrateful. Call em sooner and maybe your mortality will go up. Dont call the vet for every little thing but if it is something you know you cant handle get them there asap and dont wait until they are taking their dying breaths before calling them then you will be wasting your money and time and will be dissatisfied with vet service.

Yup, what he said.....................

 

[TheBullLady]

I wouldn't be afraid to call the vet anytime day or night, and it is especially important for a "newby" because you don't have the experience of having done this for years.

I have to agree.. I would find a new vet ASAP. He's trying to avoid coming out, for whatever reason!

 

[Bez+]

It was too late to call the vet yesterday so I'll call today. When we called about the first downed calf, he didn't have any straight forward advice. He suggested electrolytes, coccidiosis treatment, get him on a soft bed of hay, may want to try selenium. He never mentioned possible WMD or any other disease.

I think vets are generally a waste of time and money when it comes to cattle unless you have to purchase precription drugs. The only difference in, with or without vet assistance, in my experience, has been more than several thousand dollars. The cow mortality rate appears to be the same. About all the vet has done for me is someone to talk to and those are mighty expensive words. With the amount of money I have spent on vet bills, I could have replaced the cows that died and invested the proceeds.

Time for a new veterinarian - mine is a gem.

Bez+

 

[HerefordSire]

Time for a new veterinarian - mine is a gem.

Bez+



I have had it with vets. They will not get another chance. They had their chance. I gave them several opportunities. It is cheaper for an animal to die.