Commercial Bull Buyers
- Thread starter MikeC
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bigbull338
Well-known member
there are several things i look at when buying a bull.1 is will he sire the type of calves im wanting.2 does he have decent breeding in him.an can you see with your eye that he is a well bred bull.3 he must have goood feet an leggs.so he can walk the pastures with no problem.a sore footed bull is a headache.4 the bull has tobe gentle quiet an easy to handle.this will in turn calm the cow herd down.as well as sire gentle calves.5 the reg breeder must also know his cows an be people friendly.cocky breeders that have no time to answer questions lose sales in my opion.
badroute
Well-known member
When I get a salebook in the mail I look through the book and eliminate the bulls with radical epd's such as a high birth epd, high milk epd and high weaning epd. Say I eliminate 20 out of 100 bulls. When I go to the sale I look through the other 80 bulls and pick out the bulls I prefer phenotypically. Sire groups also play a part in my decision. I guess you could say I like good looking bulls with balanced epds that the country I live in will support.
Also I would be lieing if I said I paid very much attention to carcass info on the bulls.
Also I would be lieing if I said I paid very much attention to carcass info on the bulls.
Pretty much the same as badroute. Got a catalog last weekend, had about a 100 angus bulls or so, first thing I went thru and knocked off the ones with the outrageous epds as well as the below averagers. Then look at actual bw, frame scores, and weaning/yearling ratios. Then go back and knock off any with blood that I like to stay away from. Out of 100 or so, my list came out to around 20. I make two copies of that list, give one to my wife before the sale, we go our seperate ways when we get there and make our picks from that list independently. The bulls that make the top of both lists get another look. Two (or more) sets of eyes are better than one.
cfpinz
cfpinz
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
MikeC":14wj01mx said:
Chars for growth on British cattle high yellers and smokey's sell good. I really don't care for there attitude.
Love Brangus on a set of herf's black baldie calves ring the bell at the salebarn growth and hybred vigor are great.
Bull's attitude really sucks buttermilk.
Herf on a set of Brangus cows for the same reason as above but instead of having a couple of loose screws you have a herd of them.
Herf on Angus for the baldies I just don't like the cross as well as the Brangus no real reason other than I like a little Brammer influence.
Char is the only Contential I would condsider and will use again.
Attitude is getting more important as I get older, just not able to rodeo as well.
Best Attitude
Herf
Angus
Char
Brangus.
If market conditions would allow Brammer would be my first choice in cattle.
Mike its all about growth and pounds that hit the scales at the salebarn.
jscunn
Well-known member
OK Mike I will set up my list of how I go thru bulls before and at the sale.
Before.
Catalog
1. I will NOT buy bulls from anywhere that wont post the actual performance information (BW, WW, YW, Frame, Scrotal, REA, etc). I see too many producers (especially in the SEast) doing this on Angus bulls to save catalog space. I have never been there but I love looking at Gardiners sale catalog, a ton of information.
2. Depending on what I need, I might cross off all bulls with too high a BW, if I need a bull to breed to heifers. I will not buy a bull simply to breed to heifers, however. Our "heifer" bull has a BW Epd of 2.6 right now.
3. On the performance info, I would like to see a WWR at or above 100, I want to know his mother did her job. ADG and YW are important but at a much lower level than WW. We sell most of our calves before one year of age. I will look at MW (mature Weight) epds, I think our cow herd is big enough so I wont go out of my way to buy a big MW bull. I actually like to see ratios for BW, WW, & YW look something like this 98-107-102. I want the bull to be slowing down at a year, my theory is the MW will be smaller.
At the Sale
1. Structure, good feet placement. A long striding bull. Nice tight shoulders.
1A. Disposition!!
2. Depth of rib, Capacity
3. Muscle (too much muscle seems to affect structure)
4. Ideally I would like to see his dam. I want to see udder structure, disposition, etc. This is usually not possible, so I look for family members (1/2 sisters, etc).
Before.
Catalog
1. I will NOT buy bulls from anywhere that wont post the actual performance information (BW, WW, YW, Frame, Scrotal, REA, etc). I see too many producers (especially in the SEast) doing this on Angus bulls to save catalog space. I have never been there but I love looking at Gardiners sale catalog, a ton of information.
2. Depending on what I need, I might cross off all bulls with too high a BW, if I need a bull to breed to heifers. I will not buy a bull simply to breed to heifers, however. Our "heifer" bull has a BW Epd of 2.6 right now.
3. On the performance info, I would like to see a WWR at or above 100, I want to know his mother did her job. ADG and YW are important but at a much lower level than WW. We sell most of our calves before one year of age. I will look at MW (mature Weight) epds, I think our cow herd is big enough so I wont go out of my way to buy a big MW bull. I actually like to see ratios for BW, WW, & YW look something like this 98-107-102. I want the bull to be slowing down at a year, my theory is the MW will be smaller.
At the Sale
1. Structure, good feet placement. A long striding bull. Nice tight shoulders.
1A. Disposition!!
2. Depth of rib, Capacity
3. Muscle (too much muscle seems to affect structure)
4. Ideally I would like to see his dam. I want to see udder structure, disposition, etc. This is usually not possible, so I look for family members (1/2 sisters, etc).
certherfbeef
Well-known member
Very good post jscunn.
CowpokeJ
Well-known member
HCF, you could learn a few things from this guy. Good marketing question.
Great post jscunn, number 4 is looked or glossed over to many times.
If mamma is a broken down old hag that is on feed 24/7
with bad feet and a bad udder I dont want the bull.
To many good cows out there to buy a bull from a bad one no matter how good he "looks"
MD
If mamma is a broken down old hag that is on feed 24/7
with bad feet and a bad udder I dont want the bull.
To many good cows out there to buy a bull from a bad one no matter how good he "looks"
MD
randiliana
Well-known member
Once we get the catalog, the first thing I look at is growth. I want to see a bull that has a high actual WW. Doesn't have to be the top of the crop but he has to be above the average. I like to see a good YW as well but since we sell the calves off the cows that isn't as important. Second thing I look at is actual BW. I generally won't look at the really low ones say 80 lbs for cows and 70 lbs for heifers. Also we will cross off anything that is extremely high, usually over 100 lbs although we will look at them up to 110 lbs. And finally I will look at the EPD's, I want to see a reasonable BW EPD, and a higher WW EPD.
At the sale we both go and look at the animals on the list. Anything that is marginal on the list, say higher BW or lower WW we will look at and if they really impress us the will stay on the list. Generally we are looking for a long, deep and smooth shouldered bull. If we are looking at Herefords we also want to see pigment around the eyes and on the scrotum. Temprament is big with us and if he seems spooky even if he is the #1 pick out of the catalog we will cross him off. We also want to see a good hip, and the scrotal measurements need to be decent. If a bull seems narrow, or just doesn't seem to measure up to his performance we will also cross him off even if he is one of our top picks out of the catalog. I guess you could say we are looking for the all around package.
At the sale we both go and look at the animals on the list. Anything that is marginal on the list, say higher BW or lower WW we will look at and if they really impress us the will stay on the list. Generally we are looking for a long, deep and smooth shouldered bull. If we are looking at Herefords we also want to see pigment around the eyes and on the scrotum. Temprament is big with us and if he seems spooky even if he is the #1 pick out of the catalog we will cross him off. We also want to see a good hip, and the scrotal measurements need to be decent. If a bull seems narrow, or just doesn't seem to measure up to his performance we will also cross him off even if he is one of our top picks out of the catalog. I guess you could say we are looking for the all around package.
i'll have to go along with a lot of what jscunn said.
I can eliminate a lot of bulls in a catalog by looking at the normal things like acutal BW WW and YW, but keep in mind all three of these can be influenced by Environment, and you know that all "reputable" purebred breeders get out there and weigh all their calves when they hit the ground.
1. often two things that help me eliminate a lot of bulls in the sale are Frame Score and Scrotal Circ.
2. EPD's can be great but not the sole tool. know what you are looking for. and which EPD is important to what you want from the calves.
3. REA is important as well.
4. Blood lines to some extent, helps eliminate some that you may be aware of or have heard of having problems from disposition to performance.
5. Visual appraisal.
6. And by all means if you are able like jscunn said look at the mama or 1/2 sis.
I can eliminate a lot of bulls in a catalog by looking at the normal things like acutal BW WW and YW, but keep in mind all three of these can be influenced by Environment, and you know that all "reputable" purebred breeders get out there and weigh all their calves when they hit the ground.
1. often two things that help me eliminate a lot of bulls in the sale are Frame Score and Scrotal Circ.
2. EPD's can be great but not the sole tool. know what you are looking for. and which EPD is important to what you want from the calves.
3. REA is important as well.
4. Blood lines to some extent, helps eliminate some that you may be aware of or have heard of having problems from disposition to performance.
5. Visual appraisal.
6. And by all means if you are able like jscunn said look at the mama or 1/2 sis.
I can't hep but wonder about choosing above average WW or YW for a number of consecutive generations from herds that are doing the same.
Is there a real need to keep pushing for above average if the last 4 generations have been above average, and also the seedstock supplier has been selecting at the same time?
Badlands
Is there a real need to keep pushing for above average if the last 4 generations have been above average, and also the seedstock supplier has been selecting at the same time?
Badlands
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
Diehard40":272wdzlg said:
I just don't like contential cattle, they just don't cock my pistol when I see one. I prefer the brammers and Brits. This goes back to to much trouble with the Cont Bulls over the years. Also I feel the Char breeders are not chasing Angus genetics like every other breed.
I already have that in a brangus cow.
Dap
Well-known member
1. I look at the cows first. Are they a good, consistant group of cows, and have they been pampered or do they have to earn their keep.
2. I like to talk to the owner if possible. They know more than I do about their cattle. If they are good at what they do they will also know what will work best on my cows, especially if I already have some of their genetics in my herd.
3. Epd's. Moderate on pretty much everything. I like a little less milk than most.
4. Actual performance.
5. If I like a bull I look at his brothers and sisters if possible. I want to see if his sire was consistant in the type of animal he produced.
2. I like to talk to the owner if possible. They know more than I do about their cattle. If they are good at what they do they will also know what will work best on my cows, especially if I already have some of their genetics in my herd.
3. Epd's. Moderate on pretty much everything. I like a little less milk than most.
4. Actual performance.
5. If I like a bull I look at his brothers and sisters if possible. I want to see if his sire was consistant in the type of animal he produced.
