Cliven Bundy

[farmguy]

I am not a lawyer but this issue of land ownership has been decided by the supreme court and by a unanimous decision. The "free speech issue" while breaking the law has also been decided and I believe it also was appealed to the supreme court. The supreme court is also mentioned in the constitution as a part of the "checks and balances". I can only assume you good people are lawyers and specializing in constitutional law. I feel the only way this will be settled is far from this forum and we will have to agree to disagree. farmguy

 

[Dave]

Three of the four remaining protesters surrendered. The problem with all this is it was done wrong and took the attention away from the original issue of the Hammonds. You have a fire to burn a little trash in your backyard, it gets away and burns your neighbor's roses, you don't get five years as a terrorist. You have to pay for some roses.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Three of the four remaining protesters surrendered. The problem with all this is it was done wrong and took the attention away from the original issue of the Hammonds. You have a fire to burn a little trash in your backyard, it gets away and burns your neighbor's roses, you don't get five years as a terrorist. You have to pay for some roses.

Spot on Dave.

 

[Cross-7]

Three of the four remaining protesters surrendered. The problem with all this is it was done wrong and took the attention away from the original issue of the Hammonds. You have a fire to burn a little trash in your backyard, it gets away and burns your neighbor's roses, you don't get five years as a terrorist. You have to pay for some roses.

Spot on Dave.

Depends on your neighbor
If your neighbor is the Feds you burn

 

[mwj]

Three of the four remaining protesters surrendered. The problem with all this is it was done wrong and took the attention away from the original issue of the Hammonds. You have a fire to burn a little trash in your backyard, it gets away and burns your neighbor's roses, you don't get five years as a terrorist. You have to pay for some roses.

Where were the Hammonds asking for this group of outsiders to come in and help? It was my understanding the outsiders were not welcomed at all.

 

[Dave]

Three of the four remaining protesters surrendered. The problem with all this is it was done wrong and took the attention away from the original issue of the Hammonds. You have a fire to burn a little trash in your backyard, it gets away and burns your neighbor's roses, you don't get five years as a terrorist. You have to pay for some roses.

Where were the Hammonds asking for this group of outsiders to come in and help? It was my understanding the outsiders were not welcomed at all.

My understanding is that the Hammonds did not ask for their help. They agreed to surrender on January 4 to go serve their sentence. There was a group of people primarily locals who went to Dwight's house saying that they would stand between the Hammonds and the authorities. They were told thanks but no thanks. Dwight and Steve said they had given their word that they would surrender that day and they kept their word. The Bundys and a few others split off from that group and went to the refuge. And the rest is history.

If I were one of the Hammonds it would be a cold day in he77 before I would sell that ranch to the feds. I would post the heck out of it and any of the fed employees and bird watchers from the refuge who attempted to cross my land would be arrested and charged with criminal trespass.

A local USFW wildlife refuge here spent a bunch of taxpayers money to write up a plan on how they were going to expand the refuge. Their plan which would basically double the size of the refuge would take over 6 good sized family farms. These are all multi generational farms. Never once in this planning process did they talk to any of those farmers. Now they have yet to move on this in anyway other than to plan it. But they have a plan and it is all printed out. You can bet that someday someone will pick up that plan and go to figuring how they can put it into action.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

I suspect that the Feds had kinda hem-hawed about what to do with Cliven and Ammon and Ryan since 2014 in Nevada. The statute of limitations had not run. So, when all this stuff started in Oregon, bumped up by people not even from Oregon and after the Hammonds had said "just back off," and the take-over in Harney County was ARMED and the Bundy boys were up front . . . that changed the game. Cliven was travelling w/out his body-guards and I suspect the Feds decided that things were getting out of hand, and that him getting off a plane in Portland was a good place to pick him up on pending charges. I'm pretty much with FarmGuy on this. You don't go in armed and bragging about it, and claim to be doing something peaceful. Carry signs, write your Fed and State people, and the agencies involved -- get organized in doing that -- but not like how it was done. If they took over a county courthouse, a local library, a school (God forbid), a clinic that did abortions, ARMED and ready to die until their terms were met . . . what the frick do you think would have happened. I think there was great restraint by the feds. Locals got upset about FBI activity -- did they think FBI wouldn't? Per media reports, it will be weeks before that refuge is opened again. First, they'll see if there are any others hiding out there; then sweep it for explosives; send computers to labs to see what may have been compromised; inventory Native artifacts; check the whole refuge for damages, including damage to historical Native sites on that ground, that local ranchers always respected. If you've got a complaint about how Fed or State lease lands are managed, write those law makers and the agencies. Carry signs; send emails; make noise; do a parade; hold meetings. Leave your guns at home, because that is not "peaceful" when you say you'll use them. The people standing up in arms about this are those that have busted the rules, refused to pay grazing fees, and they've already lost their cases in several courts of law.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I suspect that the Feds had kinda hem-hawed about what to do with Cliven and Ammon and Ryan since 2014 in Nevada. The statute of limitations had not run. So, when all this stuff started in Oregon, bumped up by people not even from Oregon and after the Hammonds had said "just back off," and the take-over in Harney County was ARMED and the Bundy boys were up front . . . that changed the game. Cliven was travelling w/out his body-guards and I suspect the Feds decided that things were getting out of hand, and that him getting off a plane in Portland was a good place to pick him up on pending charges. I'm pretty much with FarmGuy on this. You don't go in armed and bragging about it, and claim to be doing something peaceful. Carry signs, write your Fed and State people, and the agencies involved -- get organized in doing that -- but not like how it was done. If they took over a county courthouse, a local library, a school (God forbid), a clinic that did abortions, ARMED and ready to die until their terms were met . . . what the frick do you think would have happened. I think there was great restraint by the feds. Locals got upset about FBI activity -- did they think FBI wouldn't? Per media reports, it will be weeks before that refuge is opened again. First, they'll see if there are any others hiding out there; then sweep it for explosives; send computers to labs to see what may have been compromised; inventory Native artifacts; check the whole refuge for damages, including damage to historical Native sites on that ground, that local ranchers always respected. If you've got a complaint about how Fed or State lease lands are managed, write those law makers and the agencies. Carry signs; send emails; make noise; do a parade; hold meetings. Leave your guns at home, because that is not "peaceful" when you say you'll use them. The people standing up in arms about this are those that have busted the rules, refused to pay grazing fees, and they've already lost their cases in several courts of law.

After I watched the Feds murder women and children I woke up.
They are not here to protect you! They are here to protect power and money of Washington.
They are no different than Hitlers SS IMO.

"Thomas Jefferson ... They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

" Better to fight for something than live for nothing. George Patton"

 

[Ryder]

You don't go in armed and bragging about it, and claim to be doing something peaceful. Carry signs, write your Fed and State people, and the agencies involved -- get organized in doing that -- but not like how it was done. Carry signs; send emails; make noise; do a parade; hold meetings. Leave your guns at home, because that is not "peaceful" when you say you'll use them. The people standing up in arms about this are those that have busted the rules, refused to pay grazing fees, and they've already lost their cases in several courts of law.

Good points.
Waving guns around, threatening, hollering and cussing will just turn public opinion against them and not do any good.

 

[boondocks]

Agree with Kathie and Ryder. You don't get to play the victim card after the stunts they pulled. In fact, I'd say with most folks (anarchists excluded) they hurt their own cause. (Who is paying for all of the occupiers' destruction of property? The cleanup and sweeps of the property, etc etc, as Kathie rightly notes above? ME and YOU).

Most people defending the so-called "occupiers" would have called them terrorists if they had taken up arms and then stormed and taken over a church, to protest the infiltration of religious teachings into school textbooks. Just by way of example only.

I can't put blinders on and say that it's okay for people whose views I may sympathize with, to perform acts for which I would vilify other people (to whose causes I am not so sympathetic).

 

[True Grit Farms]

If y'all believe that writing, calling your elected officials, or marching - parades, is going to make a difference just ask the Hammonds. The big money "government - special interest" like the liberal bug huggers have more political clout than the ranchers can ever overcome. Before the so called freedom fighter's took over Harney county, no one including myself ever heard of the Hammonds. And before Cliven Bundy's stand in Nevada we in the east never had a clue that the government owned the majority of the west.
The only way to stop the terrorists is to kill them, and the farmers and ranchers aren't the terrorist.

 

[fenceman]

If y'all believe that writing, calling your elected officials, or marching - parades, is going to make a difference just ask the Hammonds. The big money "government - special interest" like the liberal bug huggers have more political clout than the ranchers can ever overcome. Before the so called freedom fighter's took over Harney county, no one including myself ever heard of the Hammonds. And before Cliven Bundy's stand in Nevada we in the east never had a clue that the government owned the majority of the west.
The only way to stop the terrorists is to kill them, and the farmers and ranchers aren't the terrorist.

:nod:

 

[hurleyjd]

anarchists

 

[red angus 2010]

If y'all believe that writing, calling your elected officials, or marching - parades, is going to make a difference just ask the Hammonds. The big money "government - special interest" like the liberal bug huggers have more political clout than the ranchers can ever overcome. Before the so called freedom fighter's took over Harney county, no one including myself ever heard of the Hammonds. And before Cliven Bundy's stand in Nevada we in the east never had a clue that the government owned the majority of the west.
The only way to stop the terrorists is to kill them, and the farmers and ranchers aren't the terrorist.

We do have power if everyone would work together. Do you think we would get attention if we held all cattle from sale barns for 30 days?

 

[Bestoutwest]

We do have power if everyone would work together. Do you think we would get attention if we held all cattle from sale barns for 30 days?

Think about who that would really hurt. The ladies that run the food counter. The guys working in the back pens. The guys driving trucks to put food in their kids' mouths. The ripple effect of doing something like that would have, potentially, larger economic ramifications than imagined, and probably the economic dart you'd be throwing would miss the intended mark.

 

[hurleyjd]

If y'all believe that writing, calling your elected officials, or marching - parades, is going to make a difference just ask the Hammonds. The big money "government - special interest" like the liberal bug huggers have more political clout than the ranchers can ever overcome. Before the so called freedom fighter's took over Harney county, no one including myself ever heard of the Hammonds. And before Cliven Bundy's stand in Nevada we in the east never had a clue that the government owned the majority of the west.
The only way to stop the terrorists is to kill them, and the farmers and ranchers aren't the terrorist.

We do have power if everyone would work together. Do you think we would get attention if we held all cattle from sale barns for 30 days?

If the weather forecasters are right there will be a drought in East Texas and a lot of cows will go to market. Try feeding everything that the cow gets for thirty days and she will eat you out of house and home. Also it is nearly impossible to organize a bunch of ranchers to do any thing. No rain here in the last thirty days. Already behind for what we normally get for January. Hot days already and the rye grass is not growing much and the hay stack is getting smaller.

 

[Caustic Burno]

We got our average 4,5 inches in Jan, forecasters are predicting rain next week.
I am still having to use 4WD to travel the pasture with standing water.

Now I know we are today away from being the first day of a drought but we are not dry.

Woodville has had an average rainfall of 56.18 inches over the last 30 years, which is 43% more than the average nationwide, and 58% more than the average in Texas.

 

[ez14]

I suspect that the Feds had kinda hem-hawed about what to do with Cliven and Ammon and Ryan since 2014 in Nevada. The statute of limitations had not run. So, when all this stuff started in Oregon, bumped up by people not even from Oregon and after the Hammonds had said "just back off," and the take-over in Harney County was ARMED and the Bundy boys were up front . . . that changed the game. Cliven was travelling w/out his body-guards and I suspect the Feds decided that things were getting out of hand, and that him getting off a plane in Portland was a good place to pick him up on pending charges. I'm pretty much with FarmGuy on this. You don't go in armed and bragging about it, and claim to be doing something peaceful. Carry signs, write your Fed and State people, and the agencies involved -- get organized in doing that -- but not like how it was done. If they took over a county courthouse, a local library, a school (God forbid), a clinic that did abortions, ARMED and ready to die until their terms were met . . . what the frick do you think would have happened. I think there was great restraint by the feds. Locals got upset about FBI activity -- did they think FBI wouldn't? Per media reports, it will be weeks before that refuge is opened again. First, they'll see if there are any others hiding out there; then sweep it for explosives; send computers to labs to see what may have been compromised; inventory Native artifacts; check the whole refuge for damages, including damage to historical Native sites on that ground, that local ranchers always respected. If you've got a complaint about how Fed or State lease lands are managed, write those law makers and the agencies. Carry signs; send emails; make noise; do a parade; hold meetings. Leave your guns at home, because that is not "peaceful" when you say you'll use them. The people standing up in arms about this are those that have busted the rules, refused to pay grazing fees, and they've already lost their cases in several courts of law.

After I watched the Feds murder women and children I woke up.
They are not here to protect you! They are here to protect power and money of Washington.
They are no different than Hitlers SS IMO.

"Thomas Jefferson ... They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

" Better to fight for something than live for nothing. George Patton"

:nod: :clap:

 

[ez14]

If y'all believe that writing, calling your elected officials, or marching - parades, is going to make a difference just ask the Hammonds. The big money "government - special interest" like the liberal bug huggers have more political clout than the ranchers can ever overcome. Before the so called freedom fighter's took over Harney county, no one including myself ever heard of the Hammonds. And before Cliven Bundy's stand in Nevada we in the east never had a clue that the government owned the majority of the west.
The only way to stop the terrorists is to kill them, and the farmers and ranchers aren't the terrorist.

:nod: :clap:

 

[farmguy]

"We do have power if everyone would work together. Do you think we would get attention if we held all cattle from sale barns for 30 days?"

This was tried with the NFO 40 or 50 years ago. The goal was to raise farm prices for all not to benefit just a few. The result was a slight rise in prices which some capitalized on and then a drop as the back log moved to market. There were guns and threats to others and actual violence but it just faded away. My father was involved. Yes there were conspiracy theories as well. But for all the rhetoric nothing changed and the NFO is still around with a dozen members who are aging and mostly just have meetings.