Cidr's

[El_Putzo]

For all you guys who have used Cidr's:

I have a couple of heifers that calved in late April. They haven't come back into heat yet (that I know of). They have been exposed to a bull since June 10th but as far as I know he hasn't covered them. My dilemma is this: I have to take my cleanup bull back on July 22. I am planning to put Cidr's in these 3 first-calvers on the 4th of July, provided they don't come into heat before then, in hopes that I can get them bred before I take the bull back. My question is, on the off chance that the bull has already covered any of these first-calvers without me noticing, will the using the Cidr cause them to abort if they are already bred?

I vaguely remember talking to one of the local Dairy guys about this a while back, and I thought he said that it is ok to use the Cidr and that it would not cause them to abort. Any body know for sure? I have a call in to the Vet's office about this, but he's out till late this afternoon, so I figured it could hurt to see what you guys thought.

 

[gertfan]

They will abort if you use a shot of lute when you pull the cidr.

 

[milkmaid]

A CIDR releases progesterone, same as what's produced by the cow during pregnancy. I don't THINK it would cause a cow to abort - but - I'd suggest asking someone who knows more than I do. :lol: ;-)

 

[El_Putzo]

They will abort if you use a shot of lute when you pull the cidr.

Not planning on giving the lutalyse, just the cidr. I think that will be enough to bring them into heat. Used cysterelin the time of cidr insertion on one the other day, but I knew she hadn't been exposed to a bull, so there was no worries on her.

 

[Farmgirl]

My question is, on the off chance that the bull has already covered any of these first-calvers without me noticing, will the using the Cidr cause them to abort if they are already bred?

Shouldn't hurt. Have read articles from university animal scientists doing just what you describe to re-sync. Don't give the lut.

 

[dun]

Why not preg check them first before going through all of the other rigamoroll?

dun

 

[milkmaid]

On re-reading your post, I don't know as I'd even bother putting the CIDR in. If the cows are not cycling, there really isn't anything you can do to make them cycle. If they are cycling, they either will or will not settle when bred by your clean-up bull, and you aren't going to dramatically improve your chances of them settling by putting CIDRs in and synch'ing them.

If they've only been exposed since the 10th, then it's only been 16 days now - too soon to preg check - maybe even too soon to decide they are or are not cycling.

 

[3MR]

Not that it matters, but I agree with Milkmaid; unless I am totally missing something, which is very possible,why put the CIDR's back in. Especially if you are going to use a clean-up bull.

Even if they did start cycling and you sync the cycle you would still have a calf season running from the first cycle to the second. Why not just turn them out?

 

[Chris H]

Using the CIDR won't hurt if they are bred. Using the CIDR will not bring them into heat if they are open. If they would cycle sometime between now and when you pull the CIDR's all you would accomplish is to delay their cycle until you pull the CIDR. Might make it easier for heat detection, but considering you would be delaying a possible breeding it seems you lose by having a later calf.

 

[El_Putzo]

Why not preg check them first before going through all of the other rigamoroll?

dun

Like Milkmaid said, too early to preg check, At most they could be 16 days bred.

The one I used the Cysterelin and Cidr on 2 weeks ago wasn't cycling either (that I know of) but she did cycle 48 hours after I took the Cidr out. I didn't give any lutalyse on her. I thought maybe the same would work for these other 3, only I wasn't sure if I could use the Cidr or the Cysterelin since these 3 have been exposed to a bull and could possibly be bred (though I'm pretty sure they're not bred).

So to add to this conundrum, is it safe to use the same method I used the earlier first calver, which is: Insert Cidr and give shot of Cysterelin. Remove Cidr 7 days later and breed on standing heat.

 

[3MR]

Cysterelin (SP) will cause a cow to abort

 

[Earnit3]

CIDR's will work for what you are wanting to do. I have done this to heat detect and resynchronize the herd for AI. Wait two weeks after breeding. Place CIDR's in cows, wait 7 days, pull them and heat detect. No heat means they're bred.

You could easily do this with cows that have yet to show heat. It will help anestrous cows, which means cows that are slow to return to cycling after calving.

NO LUTALYSE AND GNRH if the bull has been in there![/b]

 

[El_Putzo]

It will help anestrous cows, which means cows that are slow to return to cycling after calving.

NO LUTALYSE AND GNRH if the bull has been in there![/b]

This was my thinking from what I had heard from the local dairy guys. As I said before, I will be double checking with the vet as soon as he returns my call.

 

[El_Putzo]

Update.

Didn't end up needing to do this anyway. Was planning on putting the Cidr's in this evening. Between last thursday and yesterday, all 3 of them came in heat. This included the one that had the calf breech on May 15th and was down for 4 days. She had some sores on her hips from the lifter, but is doing quite nicely. I AI'd her thursday, now I'll just keep my fingers crossed that she sticks.

 

[jnowack]

Cysterelin (SP) will cause a cow to abort

Cystorelin will not cause the cow to abort. It acts on the follicle and will cause ovulation.

http://www.uvm.edu/~bgottlie/CREAM2006W ... otocol.doc

 

[3MR]

Cysterelin (SP) will cause a cow to abort

Cystorelin will not cause the cow to abort. It acts on the follicle and will cause ovulation.

http://www.uvm.edu/~bgottlie/CREAM2006W ... otocol.doc

I stand corrected