Can't make up my mind.........

[Medic24]

Ok, I got vetoed out of the kudzo idea by family, hard talking neighbors and the local extension guy..darn what an easy fix for such a poor and hard to maintain pasture...


Ok here it is again...............pastures.........so -so grass at the moment... could stand lots of improvement.........the soil samples all came back calling for at least 4 tons of lime per acre, and alot of fertizer afterwards...............steep.I do mean steep....as a tree........no equipment can navigate most of it....all hand work.........plus who has that kind of money these days? lets see...............96 bucks a ton for lime X 4 tons per ac.X 89 acres......then add fertilizer at $380 per ton..........and remember ALL had work..............na.. aint gonna do it...........

which leads me to my very next and most important question.....anything out there what would thrive on such poor soil conditions? as is?

Harsh winters, cool summers mostly and usually lots of rain. 4800 feet elevation, east-southeastern exposures.

seed and grain guy telling me clovers are the way to go............dunno.....................any others wanna give yr thoughts on this one?

 

[dun]

Lespedeza would probably work well on poor ph soil. If you use the hulled type of seed you can frost seed it, if you get freezing nights anyway.

dun

 

[alabama]

Clover won't grow in low PH soil. And most of your lime will wash off the steep slopes. Lespedeza may be your best bet. Try one of the improved verities.

 

[HatCreekFan]

I second the lespedeza vote. We've found that that stuff does well in poor soil where other stuff is scared to grow

 

[certherfbeef]

I think medic just like saying Kudzoo. I bet once he figures out how to say lespedeza, he will be all for it :lol:

 

[J. T.]

Sericea Lespedeza would be a good choice, I agree. but sometimes you've just gotta take what nature gives you. If you're wanting the land to be productive, then Loblolly Pines might be the best crop for that land. I know it's not conducive to cattle raisin', but timber was probably what the Lord planted there originally and it may be the easiest, most trouble free crop to grow. Just my 2 cents.

 

[bigbull338]

clover wheat or rye grass.i know clover an wheat will grow on farmedout land.since this is hilly rough pasture.id say clover and rye grass.scott

 

[dun]

Sericea Lespedeza would be a good choice, I agree. but sometimes you've just gotta take what nature gives you. If you're wanting the land to be productive, then Loblolly Pines might be the best crop for that land. I know it's not conducive to cattle raisin', but timber was probably what the Lord planted there originally and it may be the easiest, most trouble free crop to grow. Just my 2 cents.

Not serecia, one of the lespedezas that's good forage. Serecia is almost as bad as kudzu to get rid of. It gets stemmy and fibrous so fast that the cows don;t eat it well.

dun

 

[Brandonm2]

Sericea lespedeza and fescue is the way to go. I have seen reclaimed strip mines in Bama where stands planted 14 years ago and not fertilized or even moved in 7 years were still lush. Sericea is FAR more prolific than any of the improved lespedeezas.

 

[HatCreekFan]

kobe lespedeza was what we've used....not serecia (sp?)

 

[Chuckie]

I agree with HatCreekFan on the Kobe Lespedeza. I always spread it where I think the ground isn't quite as fertile or seems to be a slow spot to catch hold. It is a good cover, puts nitrogen in the ground, and has a high protein content. Re-seeds itself too!

 

[J. T.]

I live in a county where mining has been the #1 industry for over a 100 years until recently. We, too, have a lot of reclaimed strip land that was planted to serecia lespedeza. Now, from what I've read about the forage from extension agronomists, the seedlings tend to be weak, but once established, it stays. There is a reclaimed mine to the west and northeast of my place and I have virtually no serecia in my pastures, so it's not quite as prolific as kudzu There are advantages and disadvantages to sericea. It does get stemmy and coarse if not mowed or grazed properly and cows don't prefer it over other forages. However, there are low tannin varieties that make it more palatable. It has to be managed so it doesn't get grazed down below about 3-4 inches in height. But, fertility requirements are low and it does well on low pH soils. Protein content is around 18-20% and it is a legume which can add N to the soil. The leaf fall adds organic matter to the soil which further reduces erosion on steep slopes. It was once used quite extensively here in Alabama for grazing, hay, and erosion control. On especially steep, poor soils it still has a place and may be one of the few forages that will grow on such sites.

 

[Brandonm2]

I have no idea what the "correct" spelling of "sericea" is. I have seen it spelled both ways by seed companies and scientists. This article in Kansas about eradicating it is unique because they spell it both ways in the same article(I think they don't like it in Kansas because the sericea takes the water out of the soil depriving it's neighboring plants...not a problem in wet Alabama)

http://www.franklincoks.org/noxiousweed ... recia.html

 

[dun]

I have no idea what the "correct" spelling of "sericea" is. I have seen it spelled both ways by seed companies and scientists. This article in Kansas about eradicating it is unique because they spell it both ways in the same article(I think they don't like it in Kansas because the sericea takes the water out of the soil depriving it's neighboring plants...not a problem in wet Alabama)

http://www.franklincoks.org/noxiousweed ... recia.html

It's considered a noxious weed in MO.

dun

 

[Brandonm2]

I have had it in pastures and hayfields here in Alabama and never had any problem with it at all and fully intend to plant fields in it in the next year or two. I don't know enough about Missouri, Kansas, or Oklahoma to comment; but down here it is highly recommended for cattle and wildlife. I have heard Don Ball (forage expert at Auburn) claim that on a cash basis (value of calf gains minus costs of fertilizers) it is the best forage species available in the state of Alabama, certainly for some soils. I would have to learn more about Missouri to know whether I would plant it there or not.

 

[J. T.]

Yeah, I think I have, somewhere in all my ag papers, an Auburn pamphlet discussing the establishment of serecia. In fact, you mentioned Dr. Ball....in one of his books he stated that one of the best looking pastures he'd seen was a serecia lespedeza pasture. I echo your sentiments Brandon. I don't know about MO, KS, or OK, but here in Alabama it is an attractive forage option. Auburn developed the AU Lotan variety several years ago, so it is still grown and used in Alabama. Like I said, my county has hundreds of acres of it planted on old mine spoils.

 

[Medic24]

Well, thanks to all............will order some from the local farm and feed supply if I can and try some... any idea best times to plant, germination times, maturity, etc?

 

[Medic24]

Still want my Kudzoo though

 

[Brandonm2]

Well, thanks to all............will order some from the local farm and feed supply if I can and try some... any idea best times to plant, germination times, maturity, etc?

I have my little red southern forages book around here someplace???? But this is what Pennington says here... http://www.penningtonseed.com/section/f ... cts&id=186

Broadcast 30 pounds per acre and plant it in March to May a half an inch deep. I would fertilize based on soil lab recommendations though. I have never bought an ounce of 10-10-10 in my life.

 

[Brandonm2]

Yeah, I think I have, somewhere in all my ag papers, an Auburn pamphlet discussing the establishment of serecia. In fact, you mentioned Dr. Ball....in one of his books he stated that one of the best looking pastures he'd seen was a serecia lespedeza pasture. I echo your sentiments Brandon. I don't know about MO, KS, or OK, but here in Alabama it is an attractive forage option. Auburn developed the AU Lotan variety several years ago, so it is still grown and used in Alabama. Like I said, my county has hundreds of acres of it planted on old mine spoils.

Yes, I have Don Ball's little red book here too. Some of the best looking pastures I have ever seen here are Sericea fields. Here it is more persistent than anything else I have any experience with. I am not sure I would plant it in really rich black belt soils (though the last time I was down there most of the old ranches were being converted into @*!!*ing hunting clubs and living off of CRP checks). Most of us in the hills have red clay soils (often on top of chert) and sericea has the deep roots (once established) to get to water when fescue, johnsongrass, dallisgrass, bahia, and even coastal have gone dormant in those periodic summer droughts. I have seen sericea green and growing when the rest of the stuff is brown and wilted and if sericea gets in a bahiagrass pasture YIELDS rocket in my experience. The stuff gets up above the bahia reaching for daylight and the nitrogen fixating helps the bahia. Sericea is also great to stockpile. Just pull the cows off of a field of it in August and let it grow then turn them back in around Thanksgiving and don't worry about hay until mid January. I