Canadian cattle prices

[hillbilly]

Good to see you back Black

Hillbilly

 

[Anonymous]

Don't frett about the Canucks they have financial aid for everything,just ask someone that does not want to work. Feed natural or lose big

 

[la4angus]

Good to see you back Black

Hillbilly

You are probaly about the only one.

 

[Anonymous]

Good to see you back Black

Hillbilly

You are probaly about the only one.

And we used to be such good friends meow.

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

I read where statistics Canada released info last week that their are 6.5% more cattle (1 million head) than there was 1 year ago---Maybe its just my continued pessimism working- but if the border opened (unrestricted) tomorrow, I don't think Canadians would see any major increase in prices-just a big drop in the US prices. Be too huge a supply for the demand.

But I don't see any (unrestricted) border opening happening- Hopefully its done over a long enough timetable to lessen the impact to the US producer.

Canada cattle numbers up, while U.S. inventories remain down

All cattle and calves in the U. S. and Canada combined totaled 120.4 million head on July 1, 2004, up 1 percent from a year ago, according to a U.S. Department of Agriculture report released Thursday.
All cows and heifers that have calved, at 48.9 million head, was up 1 percent from a year ago.

All cattle and calves in the United States as of July 1 totaled 103.6 million head, down slightly from the 103.9 million on July 1, 2003, and 1 percent below the 105.1 million two years ago.

All cattle and calves in Canada as of July 1 totaled 16.8 million head, up 6 percent from the 15.7 million on July 1, 2003, and 9 percent above the 15.4 million two years ago. All cows and heifers that have calved, at 6.4 million, was up 8 percent from the 6 million on July 1, 2003, and 9 percent above the 5.9 million from two years ago.

THE INDEPENDENT PRODUCER

I don't really see what you are getting at Oldtimer. Inventories in Canada and the US combined are only up 1% since last year and actually down 1% from two years ago. How do you feel that that is going to make such a huge impact on your market?

 

[la4angus]

Don't frett about the Canucks they have financial aid for everything,just ask someone that does not want to work. Feed natural or lose big

Maybe you would want to ask some of the good Canadian Ranchers on this Board and many others how much financial aid they are receiving from their liberal commie govt.

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

Thanks for your support LA4.

I got enough financial aid from the government last year to feed about 2 and a half cows through the winter. I don't know what I'm supposed to use to feed the other 29. I'd sell them except I owe about five times what I'd get out of them so I'd still have the debt and nothing to show for it.

 

[la4angus]

I really have a hard time feeling sympathy for the Canadian beef industry when they have allowed their production to exceed their consumption by so much. When you depend that heavily on an export market you are gonna take a harder hit when those markets shut down. The real irony of it all is that its not their export market that they depend on, it's ours.

I don't want to go back to the days when the U.S. of A didn't have the export markets open. We may be looking at $40.00 fats again

 

[Anonymous]

I really have a hard time feeling sympathy for the Canadian beef industry when they have allowed their production to exceed their consumption by so much. When you depend that heavily on an export market you are gonna take a harder hit when those markets shut down. The real irony of it all is that its not their export market that they depend on, it's ours.

I don't want to go back to the days when the U.S. of A didn't have the export markets open. We may be looking at $40.00 fats again

Mark my word when the Canadian/U.S. Border is reopened cattle will be off $10/cwt.

 

[BLACKPOWER]

I really have a hard time feeling sympathy for the Canadian beef industry when they have allowed their production to exceed their consumption by so much. When you depend that heavily on an export market you are gonna take a harder hit when those markets shut down. The real irony of it all is that its not their export market that they depend on, it's ours.

I don't want to go back to the days when the U.S. of A didn't have the export markets open. We may be looking at $40.00 fats again

Mark my word when the Canadian/U.S. Border is reopened cattle will be off $10/cwt.

This is my post.

 

[BLACKPOWER]

I read where statistics Canada released info last week that their are 6.5% more cattle (1 million head) than there was 1 year ago---Maybe its just my continued pessimism working- but if the border opened (unrestricted) tomorrow, I don't think Canadians would see any major increase in prices-just a big drop in the US prices. Be too huge a supply for the demand.

But I don't see any (unrestricted) border opening happening- Hopefully its done over a long enough timetable to lessen the impact to the US producer.

Canada cattle numbers up, while U.S. inventories remain down

All cattle and calves in the U. S. and Canada combined totaled 120.4 million head on July 1, 2004, up 1 percent from a year ago, according to a U.S. Department of Agriculture report released Thursday.
All cows and heifers that have calved, at 48.9 million head, was up 1 percent from a year ago.

All cattle and calves in the United States as of July 1 totaled 103.6 million head, down slightly from the 103.9 million on July 1, 2003, and 1 percent below the 105.1 million two years ago.

All cattle and calves in Canada as of July 1 totaled 16.8 million head, up 6 percent from the 15.7 million on July 1, 2003, and 9 percent above the 15.4 million two years ago. All cows and heifers that have calved, at 6.4 million, was up 8 percent from the 6 million on July 1, 2003, and 9 percent above the 5.9 million from two years ago.

THE INDEPENDENT PRODUCER

I don't really see what you are getting at Oldtimer. Inventories in Canada and the US combined are only up 1% since last year and actually down 1% from two years ago. How do you feel that that is going to make such a huge impact on your market?

One of the things that is driving our market is the fact that the drought in the midwest is keeping cattle numbers down. Another reason for the higher prices is the fact that since prices are favorable people sell more heifers than usual. This means less replacement of females keeping numbers down for a few more years. You Canadians can't possibly think that when the border opens it won't have a negative impact on price. We'll negative for us and positive for you. I don't know about the rest of you Americans on this board but I don't care how many cattlemen go under in Canada, let them find their own export markets, I know they have packing houses and sale barns there. If Canadian beef is so good they should have no trouble selling it to other countries through their own export markets.

 

[Bez]

For those who have seen some of this before - sorry about the repeat - but that's life.

It's getting to the point that I actually have this little piece set aside for "cut and paste" so I can consistently respond to comments made by someone like the following:

"skyeaglemax"

Quote - Don't frett about the Canucks they have financial aid for everything,just ask someone that does not want to work. Feed natural or lose big - end quote

You know, I am always amazed when I see questions or comments like this. Inevitably someone - somewhere - thinks the Canuckleheaded feds GIVE us money!!!

I honestly do not know who starts these things.

Our Canuckleheaded feds have never built a cattle handling system for me - even if it is consideered a safety issue. They have never paid me to NOT grow something on my land. They have never sent me a cheque to assist me in building a barn, or developing some portion of my operation so I can become more efficient. And, they are not about to start now.

The Saskatchewan government did give me 15 bucks per acres - to a maximum of 50 acres - to convert some marginal land back to grass some years ago.

I wish people would understand how frustrating it is when these questions and comments are brought forward. The reason it is frustrating, is that the question is asked because someone actually BELIEVES our sad assed feds care about the rural environment. What a crock.

Ontario government officials are now public that rural areas should receive no support - they are considered "not worth the investment of public dollars". Cannot remember Dalton's cabinet minister who said this but it went through the farm communities like loose sh*t through a goose.

That is why the banks are having a field day in Ontario at present. Now more than 6 operations have been shut down in my area - most are simply waiting for their eviction notice.

My entire disaster relief cheque was for less than 500 frigging dollars - one pulley and one belt in the discbine ate that and more - not bad for almost 15 months of serious hardship - and my animals sell at around 50 cents a pound. Cull cows - animals that would go into any persons freezer - including my own - average LESS than 25 cents a pound.

You try making it on that.

For those of you out there that do not live in Canada - despite rumours and such - WE ARE ON OUR F**KING OWN!!!! If you can find some of that mythical financial aide / cash you were droning about - show me - soon please. Put up or shut up.

I need it and can't find it.

It really rankles me - probably that is what the writer wanted to do - and succeeded - sorry folks - rant mode off.

Now, for my response to those who believe we were fools to get into this position by not developing our processing plants and our own export markets. You were RIGHT!

Many of us will not survive - many will. There will be big changes in how we operate in the future. What is impotant to remember is that "what goes around comes around in this business. That includes who we trade with.

What was once promoted as a "fully integrated industry" in North America has been exposed to be a fully protectionistic industry.

I was once a supported of allowing U.S. cattle north fro summer grazing despite the risks of blue tongue and such. I am now very, very strongly set against this. I will oppose this importation for the remainder of my life. Interestingly enough, I have heard - no proof here - that there are restrictions on movement of cattle between some States due to the risk of blue tongue.

I was once a supporter of co-operation. And despite my continuing friendships with many who work in this industry on the south side of the 49'th, I am now against allowing ownership of those "unhealthy Canadian cattle" by U.S interests in this country.

I am now opposed to allowing U.S. cattle presently owned in this country a spot in the processing line.

The spirit of co-operation has been destroyed. That is not a good thing - despite those who believe they can operate without cross border commerce in cattle.

I am prepared to take my small herd of somewhere around 100 animals and march to my own tune.

Feed lots and processors will / are following my foot steps.

We do live in interesting times - we will eventually provide 100% tested animals to foreign markets. We will eventually develop our export markets. Remember, we were encouraged by the "integrated market experts" from both sides of the border to develop the way we have. Never again.

I intend to live a long time, and I intend to continually remind people that integrated markets are not worth the paper they are printed on. Survive on your own - never believe free traders and market specialists when they say they have the solution to better economics. They lie.

Best regards,

Bez

 

[ollie]

Sounds like you and Blackpower can get along fine. You stay on your side and he will stay in his.

 

[la4angus]

Bez
I just hope that the smart a$$ Americans that has all the answers to your problemns do't have to go through them.Let them fight it on their own. I have no sympathy for them

 

[Anonymous]

Bez and Cattlerack-- I feel sympathy for you as individuals and Canadian ranchers as individuals-- but none for the Canadian cattle industry or the Canadian government that put you in the place you are. They put all your eggs into one basket, and when the basket broke they don't know what to do--for years the entire Canadian cattle industry has been built around and on the US and on the backs of the US rancher-- You talk about the hard times-- I've seen many US ranchers (several of them old friends) go broke because they can't sell their calves or cull cows for decent prices while we import more cattle and beef from Canada-- And at the same time the Canadian herd kept building. At a time when US cattle were restricted by the Canadian government from going north because they were considered diseased- Cattle that ran side by side with Canadian cattle with only a 4 wire fence between them-(if it hadn't washed out).

I read today where the packers predict the export market we had with Japan will not reopen now until next year--- A market that was just beginning to build when the dairy cow was found in Washington-- a cow that was traced back to Alberta (Canada) and according to CFIA had probably been fed contaminated feed that was produced at an Alberta feed mill. But since she was in the US, we again took the Canadian problem on our back-- we now have no export market- but we don't rely totally on an export market as we don't produce twice the beef we consume like Canada does- anything we export is gravy.

You can argue until you are blue in the face whether the border should be open- but I don't think you will see any major changes of border regs until after the election- then possibly a gradual reopening of imports over a time period to keep it from adversely effecting the US market- If any live cattle are allowed, they will be under 30 months and for slaughter only-- Nothing will be allowed into the US breeding herd-- No imports of old cattle until there are assurances that there are no more cattle alive that were born prior to the 1997 feed ban.

The USDA and our government can no longer jump with both feet and just open the border-- too million billions of borrowed dollars tied up in $1.40+ calves and $1200+ cows--Could bankrupt the industry and be a major disaster to the country--It will now be phased in over years-- and hopefully before then the Canadians will develop their own independent industry.

 

[Anonymous]

Bez and Cattlerack-- I feel sympathy for you as individuals and Canadian ranchers as individuals-- but none for the Canadian cattle industry or the Canadian government that put you in the place you are. They put all your eggs into one basket, and when the basket broke they don't know what to do--for years the entire Canadian cattle industry has been built around and on the US and on the backs of the US rancher-- You talk about the hard times-- I've seen many US ranchers (several of them old friends) go broke because they can't sell their calves or cull cows for decent prices while we import more cattle and beef from Canada-- And at the same time the Canadian herd kept building. At a time when US cattle were restricted by the Canadian government from going north because they were considered diseased- Cattle that ran side by side with Canadian cattle with only a 4 wire fence between them-(if it hadn't washed out).

I read today where the packers predict the export market we had with Japan will not reopen now until next year--- A market that was just beginning to build when the dairy cow was found in Washington-- a cow that was traced back to Alberta (Canada) and according to CFIA had probably been fed contaminated feed that was produced at an Alberta feed mill. But since she was in the US, we again took the Canadian problem on our back-- we now have no export market- but we don't rely totally on an export market as we don't produce twice the beef we consume like Canada does- anything we export is gravy.

You can argue until you are blue in the face whether the border should be open- but I don't think you will see any major changes of border regs until after the election- then possibly a gradual reopening of imports over a time period to keep it from adversely effecting the US market- If any live cattle are allowed, they will be under 30 months and for slaughter only-- Nothing will be allowed into the US breeding herd-- No imports of old cattle until there are assurances that there are no more cattle alive that were born prior to the 1997 feed ban.

The USDA and our government can no longer jump with both feet and just open the border-- too million billions of borrowed dollars tied up in $1.40+ calves and $1200+ cows--Could bankrupt the industry and be a major disaster to the country--It will now be phased in over years-- and hopefully before then the Canadians will develop their own independent industry.

I posted the above- guess it disconnected me before I got it sent. Oldtimer

 

[CattleAnnie]

Fact of the matter is that I'd be out of debt tomorrow if I could sell tickets to kick that dumba## reject catfish farmer from the states that started this mess last year right square in the pants. Two bits a boot. Idiot put the whole industry in a spin by hauling a downer cow to at least three different packers looking for someone to butcher her, supposedly because he wouldn't be covered by his insurance if he'd just put her down at home.

Good God, why anyone would want to eat an animal that looks ill is beyond mortal reckoning anyway. Anyone with an iota of common sense knows that if an animal is ill and doesn't respond to treatment, put her down.

For those who lend their kind words, I thank you from the bottom of my heart. These are pretty stressful times up here right now and frankly it's awful soothing to tired souls to hear soft words of encouragement.

Suicides, families being torn apart due to financial stress, family farms going to the block, old ranchers too crippled to calve out another year and forced to sell the operation lock, stock and barrel for a pittance... it just never ends.

Hell, even our local tractor dealership is now laying off long time employees...usually they sell around 600 pieces of haying equipment during the summer. By the middle of August they had sold 60. Just more families out of income now.

Long and short of it is that it's getting pretty darn grim up here, and baby, we ain't seen nothing yet. This is the time of the year when traditionally calves are selling strong, as it's not even the start of fall run.

Anyway, thanks again for the encouraging words. I know it's going to get worse before it gets better, but at least now we know that in Canada private packers can test 100% for BSE. Maybe we'll get those foreign markets after all, eh?

For those with lumps of coals for hearts, I just hope and pray you never have to walk a mile in our shoes. That's about the only civil thing to be said.

:heart: To my fellow cattlemen and women in Canada, God bless you and your families. Keep your chin up. :heart:

Take care.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Bez It was Ingrata who canned the programs. He also canned funding to DHI, BIO and Swine Improvement Ont. Although the funding was less than 10% of their respective budgets, Its still quite a blow.
To our American friends, I wonder how many of those Texas ranchers who are lobbing to keep out CDN beef out are also Lobbing to keep out CDN oil out. And by the way take a look at how much $$$ go into ranching or farming in the form of "extention support" from your universities.
The crises in Canada was made far worse by the free trade deal that assumed fair play on both sides. Heck the US bennifeted greatly by processing the CDN product (call it value added) but when it no longer suits them they quit. Just because someone can do a better job than you doesn't mean they are subsidized. The priviliged always underestimate the ingenuity of the opperessed.

 

[Gone Country]

I personally think that that it is a darn shame to see what you guys are going through right now.....But for the grace of God, we may have to walk in those shoes...I am sorry if some Texans have seemed cold-hearted to your plight..(There are far more great and friendly people in Texas than there are cold-hearted ones)... The next time we have a seven-year drought and we are having to sell our breeding stock for nearly nothing, I hope that you folks will show us some sympathy......

 

[BLACKPOWER]

Anyway, thanks again for the encouraging words. I know it's going to get worse before it gets better, but at least now we know that in Canada private packers can test 100% for BSE. Maybe we'll get those foreign markets after all, eh?


Take care.

BSE testing is irrevelent if cattle are under 30 months of age. So this 100% testing is bunk, if it makes you feel better then woo hoo. Probably gonna cost you 15 cents a head to do it let's see 25 cents minus 15 cents = NO MORE CANADIAN BEEF INDUSTRY.