Can I re-induce lactation after 28 days?

[Katpau]

Do you think there is a chance I can get a cow that calved 28 days ago, to come back into milk with repeated milking? This cow lost a breech calf we pulled on March 12th. She was put back in with the rest of the herd a few days later, and just this week did she finally start to look like she was drying up.

Yesterday morning we found our last cow to calve, with a calf that was considerably smaller than those she's had in the past. I started looking for a twin with no luck, but that evening as we headed back out after feeding, I saw a suspiciously small calf just above a group of other calves. Yep, no ear-tag, we found the twin. We fed it colostrum last night and this morning and caught the cow with no calf. We milked her and it was easy to get plenty of clear fluid, but not milk. I have successfully put a calf on cows that lost their calves 7 days ago and 17 days ago, but is this impossible? The others had clear fluid at first, but then turned to milk. Both are doing great now with calves that are about a month old. I read where women can induce lactation to feed adopted babies, so it would seem like this might be possible with persistent milking. My Vet said, "I don't know. Let me know what happens". What do you think?

 

[Buck Randall]

There is definitely a chance, but I'm not sure if anyone could give you a hard number. I'd say you'll probably be able to get this one going again, but it's going to be a few days before you're getting enough milk with nutritive value for the calf. You're going to have to put some work into it.

 

[Katpau]

The plan is to continue milking the cow three times a day, and of course feed the calf milk replacer. If it begins to look like milk instead of mostly clear serum, we will let the calf do the milking and then give him a bottle to top him off. I have hope, but we'll see.

 

[gcreekrch]

3 to 5 cc of Oxytocin could be your friend too.

 

[Katpau]

Thanks for the suggestion. I asked the Vet about that and he said it would not help in this case. He explained it, but I'm not sure I really understood what he was saying. Something like Oxy started things, but Prostaglandin would release the milk. He said that the act of milking her would stimulate the production of the Prostaglandin and with luck the thin watery fluid I am milking out now, could turn into milk. He said to give it a week, and if no progress, it probably wasn't going to happen.

 

[TCRanch]

Interested to see how this plays out. Please keep us updated - and good luck!

 

[Katpau]

I have never been very good at milking by hand. It is really hard, and I am impressed by anyone who can fill a bucket. Does anyone have any suggestions for making my hands more slippery? With normal milk, getting milk on your fingers helped, but this stuff is still too thin. I use warm water and I tried a little OB lub, but my hands dry out after a few pulls.

UPDATE
Yesterday (day 1) milk was thin and almost clear. By the third milking, I thought maybe I saw a slight change, but it might have been wishful thinking. Milk in the bucket was about the color of pale beer.

The calf was with the cow all day and drank colostrum really well in the morning, but was unenthusiastic about his mid day bottle, even though it was only a half bottle. He refused the bottle in the evening, but went over and drank from the water trough. his stomach did not seem empty and my husband thought he might have sucked the cow. He hadn't defecated yet, so I stimulated that, and he passed a lot of poo. I wondered if that was the problem. I shut the gate so he could not go up to the cow. I did not want him to fill up on her, since I doubt there was much value in what she was producing. I don't think that is what happened, but wasn't sure. I have not seen her act motherly to him, but not aggressive either.

I did not sleep much last night, worrying about him. This morning he was hungry and drained a half bottle quickly. I will bring him another 1/2 at noon. We milked the cow and it had turned white!! Still thinner than normal, but it definitely looks like milk.

 

[TCRanch]

Progress! Thanks for the update. Bag balm? I've used it on inflamed udders & if I have to treat for mastitis.

This late in the game it may take a while for your cow to feel the love but if the calf is aggressive when you allow him to nurse it should help. Continued good luck!

Definitely not the same but I have a double whammy: cow with mastitis and calf is kind of a dummy calf that also has a navel infection. Treated the cow (and also used the aforementioned Bag Balm), been supplementing the calf while pumping him with antibiotics. He's no longer interested in the bottle, I've seen him nurse, her bag/teats look sooo much better, swelling on the naval has gone down significantly. Calf still doesn't have a ton of energy but could be because I'm keeping them in prison (the barn) with no other calves to play with. Dunno. And have no plans to let them out until I'm darn sure she's producing enough quality milk and he's good to go.

 

[regolith]

keep going. It takes a while to turn the milk back into proper milk but I've seen it happen... no guarantee on your cow. Had two last year, one I dried off got mastitis about two weeks later by the time I finished treating the mastitis she was back in milk and milked for another month... the other I think had pneumonia after calving and I'd dried her off, she was completely dry and running with cows and calves. Well, when the calves got pretty big they wanted more milk, they somehow got her back into production.

 

[Silver]

Interesting progress. Keep us posted.
I have to ask: why do you want your hands slippery for milking?

 

[Katpau]

Interesting progress. Keep us posted.
I have to ask: why do you want your hands slippery for milking?

It seems to me like it would be much more comfortable for the cow, and maybe she would be more willing to let her milk down. If you've ever milked after the calf had sucked, the nipples are nice and slippery, and they milk easier.

UPDATE
When we milked on the evening, night before last, it looked like normal milk, but it was a real struggle to get anything out of her. I thought, maybe we had only succeeded in milking the last she was able to produce. The udder looked pretty deflated and I was very discouraged.

Yesterday we spent the whole day, gathering cows, giving vaccinations, and banding the bull calves. There was no time to milk her, and I kind of thought it might be pointless anyway. After the calf drank his first bottle in the morning, he went over to the cow. She let him suck very briefly before pushing him off and walking away. At his second bottle, she came over to us and put her head near him and let her tongue barely touch his back, before leaving. I was not sure if that was a slight show of affection, or she just wanted whatever he was eating.

This morning, before feeding the calf his bottle, we caught the cow in the chute and tried to milk her. I could not get anything out of the right side, bur she did milk a bit on the left. After a couple pulls, I said let the calf have a try. We put him on and he went after her like a pro. I could see milk on his mouth, so I know he was getting something. After he worked all four for a few minutes, I went over to the right side again, and was able to easily get some milk. We let him work on her for 20 minutes and then gave him 3/4 of a bottle which he also drained. I am not sure we will ever get her milking enough to feed him, but I am encouraged again. At least he might end up with a companion and maybe she will accept him and feed him what she can.

 

[TCRanch]

That is great news! Is it possible her hormones reacted to the calf sucking - as opposed to you milking - which caused her to start producing on the right side?

 

[regolith]

cool. Sounds like her letdown (natural oxytocin) kicked in when the calf was on. Calf will do a better job of bringing her into milk but sometimes you need to work the udder (which stimulates her), walk away and come back in 2 - 3 minutes.
Most of my cows being dairies let their milk down as soon as they walk into a shed but every once in a while I get one that has a significant delay which is a nuisance if you need to view the milk before milking them. Coming back to them a minute or two later usually has results.

 

[Katpau]

After a week of putting the calf on the cow three times a day, we were able to get her milking some, but it was not enough to sustain the calf, and she was still uninterested in allowing it to nurse, unless she was locked in the head-gate. On day 7, I got a call from a friend and discovered she had a cow that had lost a calf 9 days ago. She was being pressured by our mutual friend the Vet to cull her. She was very fond of the cow who was only 4 years old, and so we decided to see if I could get her to take my calf. She delivered the cow that evening and it was determined she still had milk. I let Mama number two go, and she walked off without even looking back. While I'm not convinced that I could never get any cow back into milk after 28 days, I know this one was not going to work.

Wednesday 4-15-20 at 7 PM we put the calf on Mama #3. The calf worked all 4 nipples and still took half a bottle. We have been putting the calf on the cow the last 2 days and supplementing with the bottle. This cow is now talking to the calf and follows it around, but when it occasionally gets a hold of a nipple, she pushes it off as soon as the calf aggressively butts her. He is actually pretty hesitant to go in and mostly just reaches out towards her and moves off if she moves her leg at all. Last night he did not seem very hungry, but I put him on her. Perhaps she is allowing him to nurse when we aren't looking? In the chute, he is very aggressive and almost lifts her off the ground when he rams her. I have still been offering the bottle after he nursed. Last night he took the partial bottle, and then had nasty diarrhea. I believe he was getting too much, so today we are just letting him suck the cow. His stomach feels full after he nurses her in the head-gate, but I have not witnessed him nursing on his own. He is solid black and she is a registered Hereford. My friend only has red and white cows, so the cow had never seen a calf like this before. I am wondering if that is somewhat confusing to her. She calls him and walks up along side him, put when he timidly reaches out toward her udder, she gently lifts her leg and walks away. I swear she looks at him kind of like "what are you"?

This poor little Hereford did not lose her calf without help. She was out in the pasture with a group of other cows and their calves. It was decided they should bring them up closer to the house for calving. After they were gathered, my friends hired help went out to the pasture and discovered a newborn calf was left behind. They brought it up and decided it belonged to a cow that was bagged up. She had apparently tried to get away to go back when they were gathering, so they were sure the calf belonged to her. They penned them up, but the cow rejected the calf. Instead of looking at the other cows to see if she might be the wrong cow, they caught her and forced her to take the calf. After a few days, she accepted and was feeding the calf. The next morning they discovered she had given birth to her own calf, but it was stillborn. Not sure why. They decided to leave the stolen calf with her and my friend was able to identify the cow that had actually given birth. The Vet said she should go, because she had not made a fuss trying to get back to her calf. She had raised several other calves with good results, so if she will raise mine, I will try to AI her to another Hereford bull and give her back in the Fall.

 

[gcreekrch]

Hobble her back legs while she is in the chute leaving about 8 to 10 inches of rope between well tied and snug bowline knots around her legs and above the dewclaws. Put the pair in a small pen and leave them be a few days.

 

[Katpau]

Looks like hobbles won't be necessary. When we went down this evening she was standing right next to him in a corner by the entrance to the aisle leading to the chute where we had been catching her to feed him. It looked like she wanted him to suck, but he was suspicious. I went up along side them and turned his head to her bag. He took it rather tentative and then realized she was not going to push him off. They spent the next 25 minutes with him sucking and getting more and more confident. He ate until he was full. Looks like this is going to work out.

 

[TCRanch]

Great news! A lot of drama and hard work but worth it.

 

[76 Bar]

:tiphat: Good save Katpau! Aside from convincing the surrogate mom I think half the battle is convincing a calf a calf to suck when it's previously been reprimanded for doing so.

 

[Katpau]

Thanks! Yesterday morning he appeared to wait for our arrival and for me to enter the pen and stand by the cow before he tried sucking. Not too surprising, since he was rejected and abandoned by the birth Mom. Pushed away for a week by my first attempt at grafting and again for 3 days by Mama #3. I think he was convinced he could not suck unless the cow was in the chute.

He sucked again when we checked them in the evening. This time he didn't wait until I got closer to the cow, but did seem to have been waiting for our arrival. This morning we found him casually sucking when we arrived. He came over to check me out and it was obvious his tummy was full. He played around while I fed the cow some hay, and then went back to suck a little more. Tomorrow I will release them into a small grass paddock.

This was a bit of an ordeal, but I really hate having a bottle calf if there is a way to avoid it. I had often read people suggesting that after just a few days it was too late to graft a calf on a cow, and I wondered if that were really true. My experience this year suggests there is a much bigger window than most people would guess. 28 days was certainly a gamble and I failed with that one, but I succeeded at 7, 9 and even 17 days.

 

[MurraysMutts]

Thanks for the story and updates. Love it when a plan comes together!
My easiest graft was a heifer that lost hers. Hard pull. Big backwards bull calf.
I had a bottle baby on hand.
Went and grabbed that bottle calf and slung the placenta all over it. Rubbed it in good. Calf was 2 weeks plus old.
Mama took it like a duck to water!

Also spent 3 weeks chuting one twice a day to get it to take. Persistent I guess.

Good on you!