Calving Ease

[True Grit Farms]

What bull is 1143Y?

He's a white faced bull, imagine that .

I honestly did not know he had a blaze until this morning when I looked him up for Jeanne. I am not exaggerating when I say Kris does all my matings. In the last 2 years, I think I argued with her on maybe 2 cases. If she breeds for blaze faces she doesn't tell me.

Well YOU need to start paying a little more attention Ron. I find it hard to believe that a book smart person would turn the most important decision in the cow business over to someone else. I think you figured out that you don't want to use a blazed faced sire over blazed faced cows...in the Simmental breed.

 

[True Grit Farms]

What bull is 1143Y?

He's a white faced bull, imagine that .

I honestly did not know he had a blaze until this morning when I looked him up for Jeanne. I am not exaggerating when I say Kris does all my matings. In the last 2 years, I think I argued with her on maybe 2 cases. If she breeds for blaze faces she doesn't tell me.

He's a good bull blazed face and all.

 

[redcowsrule33]

Jeanne, I like your answer, I think we have lost site of truly breeding cattle. Doubt I'll ever be a true breeder but no more extremes for me.
Ron, look up a bull called Tux and Tails, throws alot of blaze..big footed well made animal. If you like him let me know I'll get the owner info.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME:

I think this is who he's talking about: https://www.facebook.com/GreerSimme...0558747069596/759450994180366/?type=3&theater

Good looking bull, but his CEM is abysmal.

 

[Bright Raven]

Jeanne, I like your answer, I think we have lost site of truly breeding cattle. Doubt I'll ever be a true breeder but no more extremes for me.
Ron, look up a bull called Tux and Tails, throws alot of blaze..big footed well made animal. If you like him let me know I'll get the owner info.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME:

I think this is who he's talking about: https://www.facebook.com/GreerSimme...0558747069596/759450994180366/?type=3&theater

Good looking bull, but his CEM is abysmal.

Thank you. He looks good!

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

What bull is 1143Y?

He is a full brother to W/C Loaded Up, who is making waves in the Simmental world. I have seen many Loaded Up calves, but his semen is too high for my AI use. When my Genex rep told me they picked up his full brother, and he comes highly recommended from a trusted breeder who has calves on the ground by him, I decided to try him.
http://genex.crinet.com/beef/index.php? ... 64&lang=EN

TG, as much as we love the white face, we do not "chase it". In my tank, I have about 3/4 bulls that are solid black or red, and 1/4 that have a blaze face. My matings are done based first on the pedigree of the cow, then on the EPD's of that cow and where she needs help. Phenotype is the third selection criteria. On Ron's cattle, he sends me reg numbers on all of his cows around September, and I take several days to research each cow, look at her resulting calves, and decided for what Ron has in his tank what will likely be the best match (he does not want a bunch of inventory of semen). I see his cows every year, and his calves, so I know them well (cause gosh knows he can not take a decent picture).
This year, 1143, Optimizer and Live Ammo are the only bulls that have a white face that he is using. I will use Optimizer a bunch again, because it is hard to beat the calves at weaning and yearling weights!

Plus, who cares what Ron is chasing. His calves look better than ever, and he is having a great time producing and raising them. And so far, he has not had any problems selling his calves. Let him do what he wants to do.

 

[Lazy M]

Gotta admit I think that the white face looks pretty cool, even if it does apparently make me a sorry cattleman..

 

[bse]

Ron you had the right one, do you not like him????? Lol

 

[True Grit Farms]

What bull is 1143Y?

He is a full brother to W/C Loaded Up, who is making waves in the Simmental world. I have seen many Loaded Up calves, but his semen is too high for my AI use. When my Genex rep told me they picked up his full brother, and he comes highly recommended from a trusted breeder who has calves on the ground by him, I decided to try him.
http://genex.crinet.com/beef/index.php? ... 64&lang=EN

TG, as much as we love the white face, we do not "chase it". In my tank, I have about 3/4 bulls that are solid black or red, and 1/4 that have a blaze face. My matings are done based first on the pedigree of the cow, then on the EPD's of that cow and where she needs help. Phenotype is the third selection criteria. On Ron's cattle, he sends me reg numbers on all of his cows around September, and I take several days to research each cow, look at her resulting calves, and decided for what Ron has in his tank what will likely be the best match (he does not want a bunch of inventory of semen). I see his cows every year, and his calves, so I know them well (cause gosh knows he can not take a decent picture).
This year, 1143, Optimizer and Live Ammo are the only bulls that have a white face that he is using. I will use Optimizer a bunch again, because it is hard to beat the calves at weaning and yearling weights!

Plus, who cares what Ron is chasing. His calves look better than ever, and he is having a great time producing and raising them. And so far, he has not had any problems selling his calves. Let him do what he wants to do.

That's about the most ignorant post I've ever read. The Simmental breed is bigger than Ron, and should be treated as such. Some folks will do anything for a dollar and screw trying to improve or do what's right for the breed. Breeders like you two are not doing anything positive for the Simmental breed, just profiting off of it. IMO


This heifer has some excellent Simmental bloodlines and numbers behind her and will be used as a recip. She has no papers and no DNA samples, it would be a disservice to the Simmental breed.

 

[Bright Raven]

Ron you had the right one, do you not like him????? Lol

Lol. He would sure put some white on them.
:cboy:

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

What bull is 1143Y?

He is a full brother to W/C Loaded Up, who is making waves in the Simmental world. I have seen many Loaded Up calves, but his semen is too high for my AI use. When my Genex rep told me they picked up his full brother, and he comes highly recommended from a trusted breeder who has calves on the ground by him, I decided to try him.
http://genex.crinet.com/beef/index.php? ... 64&lang=EN

TG, as much as we love the white face, we do not "chase it". In my tank, I have about 3/4 bulls that are solid black or red, and 1/4 that have a blaze face. My matings are done based first on the pedigree of the cow, then on the EPD's of that cow and where she needs help. Phenotype is the third selection criteria. On Ron's cattle, he sends me reg numbers on all of his cows around September, and I take several days to research each cow, look at her resulting calves, and decided for what Ron has in his tank what will likely be the best match (he does not want a bunch of inventory of semen). I see his cows every year, and his calves, so I know them well (cause gosh knows he can not take a decent picture).
This year, 1143, Optimizer and Live Ammo are the only bulls that have a white face that he is using. I will use Optimizer a bunch again, because it is hard to beat the calves at weaning and yearling weights!

Plus, who cares what Ron is chasing. His calves look better than ever, and he is having a great time producing and raising them. And so far, he has not had any problems selling his calves. Let him do what he wants to do.

That's about the most ignorant post I've ever read. The Simmental breed is bigger than Ron, and should be treated as such. Some folks will do anything for a dollar and screw trying to improve or do what's right for the breed. Breeders like you two are not doing anything positive for the Simmental breed, just profiting off of it. IMO


This heifer has some excellent Simmental bloodlines and numbers behind her and will be used as a recip. She has no papers and no DNA samples, it would be a disservice to the Simmental breed.

Your loss. I have more bull buyers than I have bulls for (which is good in today's market), and I have no problem marketing my cattle. You can play in your sandbox of rules, and I will play in mine.
We have won our county carcass contest EVERY year since it started (ALWAYS grading Choice) with my sorry cattle, so I'll keep going after performance and excelling. You do what you want to do.

 

[Bright Raven]

Addressed to True Grit:

Grit stated:
That's about the most ignorant post I've ever read. The Simmental breed is bigger than Ron, and should be treated as such. Some folks will do anything for a dollar and screw trying to improve or do what's right for the breed. Breeders like you two are not doing anything positive for the Simmental breed, just profiting off of it. IMO.

No. The most ignorant post in the annals of Cattle Today was the one where you were Going to gun down a black security guard because of paranoia. Lol.

Second. You are correct. I don't have great expectations that I will improve the Simmental breed. On the other hand, I doubt I am hurting it. I do think I have produced some respectable Simmentals and I have made some buyers very happy because they constantly tell me that.

Third. Thank you for all you have done to improve the Simmental breed.

 

[talltimber]

Are you disappointed in not ever having a prime? Do you think you are stretching your cattle's ability to hit choice? Or are you saying you are winning it with just Choice cattle, humble brag style?

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

Are you disappointed in not ever having a prime? Do you think you are stretching your cattle's ability to hit choice? Or are you saying you are winning it with just Choice cattle, humble brag style?

I am MORE than happy with Choice! Most breeders are trying to get 70% in the choice bracket, we have hit 100. Now, our numbers are small, but all those data points we get on our steers are positive, not negative. THOSE ACTUAL NUMBERS I can show to bull buyers of sibs of the steers we are selling...
We are winning it based on CARCASS value, which takes into account CAB credits, credits for Choice grades, low yield grades... all priced based on the values that day. All of the data points collected on our steers go back to the ASA.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I know the truth hurts, but selling spotted Simmental cattle as registered and or breeding stock isn't doing the breed right. I try not to breed pimp and enjoy looking at good quality cattle that are representative of the breed. Heck a good longhorn steer can grade choice.
This might just be the bull you need to get over the top to prime.

 

[Bright Raven]

I know the truth hurts, but selling spotted Simmental cattle as registered and or breeding stock isn't doing the breed right. I try not to breed pimp and enjoy looking at good quality cattle that are representative of the breed. Heck a good longhorn steer can grade choice.
This might just be the bull you need to get over the top to prime.

Vince,
Keep it going. You are on a roll now. :cowboy:

 

[True Grit Farms]

Addressed to True Grit:

Grit stated:
That's about the most ignorant post I've ever read. The Simmental breed is bigger than Ron, and should be treated as such. Some folks will do anything for a dollar and screw trying to improve or do what's right for the breed. Breeders like you two are not doing anything positive for the Simmental breed, just profiting off of it. IMO.

No. The most ignorant post in the annals of Cattle Today was the one where you were Going to gun down a black security guard because of paranoia. Lol.

Second. You are correct. I don't have great expectations that I will improve the Simmental breed. On the other hand, I doubt I am hurting it. I do think I have produced some respectable Simmentals and I have made some buyers very happy because they constantly tell me that.

Third. Thank you for all you have done to improve the Simmental breed.

At least I can say, I didn't do anything to hurt the Simmental breed. :tiphat:

 

[Bright Raven]

Preface: This is addressed to the fine fisherman and Breeder of Simmentals - Mr. True Grit Farms. However, anyone is invited to respond. The issue of COLOR and in more particular THE PLACEMENT OR PATTERN OF COLOR in Simmentals has been discussed without documention. True Grit seems to hold the key to explaining what a Simmental SHOULD look like with respect to COLOR AND PATTERN OF COLOR.

Text:

You address "color and placement of color" in the Simmental breed like it is sacred.  One has to wonder if you put "color and markings" above funnctional traits.  Color is not a functional trait.  Especially when compared to udder, feet, calving ease, growth and performance.

In past posts, you have criticized the Simmental breed because the modern American Simmental is mostly Black.  In doing so,  you point out that old world Simmentals or Fleckvieh were a variety of colors - red and white.  More recently, you are up in arms because they are not soild black!!! For reference here is an excerpt describing the old world Fleckvieh:

The traditional colouration of the Simmental has been described variously as "red and white spotted" or "gold and white", although there is no specific standard colouration, and the dominant shade varies from a pale yellow-gold all the way to very dark red (the latter being particularly popular in the United States). The face is normally white, and this characteristic is usually passed to crossbred calves.

My question to you is:  what color and pattern of color is appropriate for the modern American Simmental?  And why is that color or pattern of color important to the integrity of the breed? What is it Grit? Do you want them red and white? All black? Make up your mind.

 

[True Grit Farms]

The best all around Simmental bull available. IMO
My way of thinking is that a Simmental should look like the best in the breed. I'm a not very smart or well schooled, but I can see and have a fair amount of common sense. And I sure don't see any spotted Simmental bulls in the Select Sires or ABS catalogs. Common sense tells me that my cows should look like the best in the breed. I like blazed faced bulls and have used them and will continue to. I don't have a problem selling a animal with a little white on the belly as breeding or registered stock, but I do have a problem selling a spotted animal as registered that doesn't represent the breed.
Out of a 100+ cows, I have 2 with subpar udders IMO, one SimAngus and one Beefmaster. Otherwise I'm very proud of my girls udders and teats, that's one trait I cull hard for, it's a easy fix. Feet and structure is hard for me to judge, I've only culled one cow because of foot issues and she was 12. My cows only cover 400 acres of ground and very few rocks or hills, but I don't have foot rot, curly toe or any other issues. We also have no pinkeye problems, but I attribute that to lack of forage. I'm always overstocked and the cows keep the grass grazed low.
Ron are you selling any heifers this year?

 

[Bright Raven]

The best all around Simmental bull available. IMO
My way of thinking is that a Simmental should look like the best in the breed. I'm a not very smart or well schooled, but I can see and have a fair amount of common sense. And I sure don't see any spotted Simmental bulls in the Select Sires or ABS catalogs. Common sense tells me that my cows should look like the best in the breed. I like blazed faced bulls and have used them and will continue to. I don't have a problem selling a animal with a little white on the belly as breeding or registered stock, but I do have a problem selling a spotted animal as registered that doesn't represent the breed.
Out of a 100+ cows, I have 2 with subpar udders IMO, one SimAngus and one Beefmaster. Otherwise I'm very proud of my girls udders and teats, that's one trait I cull hard for, it's a easy fix. Feet and structure is hard for me to judge, I've only culled one cow because of foot issues and she was 12. My cows only cover 400 acres of ground and very few rocks or hills, but I don't have foot rot, curly toe or any other issues. We also have no pinkeye problems, but I attribute that to lack of forage. I'm always overstocked and the cows keep the grass grazed low.
Ron are you selling any heifers this year?

I have sold all the heifers except the ones I plan to retain. I have one I am holding for a User here who wants her bred. She is an upgrade.

I only got 5 in this fall's calf group. I would have liked more. It came out 9 bulls, 5 heifers.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I will weigh in on this color issue. I have said it for years, "I don't care if they are red, black, spotted or polka dotted purple. I just want them to be good"
Color is a non-issue for me. Except -- what my buyers will & will not buy.
Back around 2003, I consigned a beautiful bred heifer in a high quality sale. She had about a 1" ring of white above both hind feet. I got KILLED on that sale. If I calved out white feet, they stayed in the herd or were sold private treaty. Now, it does not matter at all. Granted, a chromed up animal and a SPOTTED animal are two different things. But, in todays market, I'm sure I could sell a spotted up heifer to a show person. They are eye-catching!!!! I still love them, but I avoid them for now. I have had one spotted calf (bull - quickly a steer) in the past maybe 15 years.
Bulls are unacceptable, just becomes a steer, and my feedlot buyer doesn't care what color my calves are.
Color of the Simmentals have changed over the years. After the bad taste in the mouth of feedlot buyers from buying the original spotted calves that were back-grounded, then sold to feedlots and finished out at 1700# - spotted cattle became discounted - big-time. Then came the purebred blacks... Now, I can sell a good red heifer as easily as a black one (and a lot of time for more money!) Still difficult to find good red bulls - well, limited choices compared to good black bulls.
I still don't breed for color. Just want them super athletic, easy keeping & good temperament - and PRETTY!!!!