chaded
Well-known member
What about high calving ease and low birth weight bull that has high calving ease maternal? 
Calving ease
- Thread starter kenny thomas
- Start date
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Can't remember the last time I had to pull a calf. But I've also never had first calf heifer with a 105 lb. calf - and the calf is a heifer. Yowza! Spunky pelvic measured at 168, so she should (theoretically) easily have an 80-85 lb. calf unassisted. And Tallywacker is the sire; average...
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That would be Johnson, in my earlier post.What about high calving ease and low birth weight bull that has high calving ease maternal?
Stickney94
Well-known member
And yet, many like to criticize "carcass" bulls because they aren't maternal
(sorry, I know SOB you weren't talking about that -- it's just one of my pet peeves because it seems to happen often. Don't like GAR for maternal reasons -- then don't use them for siring your herd cows! Simple. haha).
chaded
Well-known member
The bull I have now is +17 CED, -1.9 BW and has +13 CEM. I have having a run lf heifer calves this year and need a few more cows so I am thinking about keeping some of the earliest heifers born this season. I don't have any history with bull (or cows fornthat matter) so everything is to be determined of course…
See how they grow. Disposition (in my world) is huge. Have them pelvic measured before making a final decision. I would also base my decision on how well you like the dam. Any udder issues? Maintaining condition? Docility? While we all like a pretty cow, I don't base my decision on looks; I have a couple butt uglies that are phenomenal mamas and raise surprisingly pretty calves.
Travlr
Well-known member
Explain why terminal please...
coachg
Well-known member
My idea on low birth weight revolves around unassisted births . No local vet will make farm calls anymore. I don't want tiny but I want a calf that a heifer can have . I use a higher birth weight bull on my cows but I still don't want a 100 lb calf . After a live calf hits the ground I think it falls on me to provide ample and quality forage for momma . If I have ample grass I don't creep feed my calves but if drought or some other factor affects my forage I'll creep feed based on cost vs profit . Don't think I'm any different than most everyone on this forum.
Travlr
Well-known member
I want cows designed to deliver 120 pound calves. I'd rather have them than a calving ease or low birthweight bull.
Give me cows with the hips to birth whatever they are bred to. I might use a calving ease bull for heifers... but once they have a live calf on the ground they need to be easy keepers in ALL possible ways... and that includes their next calf.
Give me cows with the hips to birth whatever they are bred to. I might use a calving ease bull for heifers... but once they have a live calf on the ground they need to be easy keepers in ALL possible ways... and that includes their next calf.
simme
Old Dumb Guy
That would be a Brahman.
For the simple reason that all Char x progeny should go straight to the feedlot. This calf is broad backed and has the ability to grow and produce an excellent carcass.
Travlr
Well-known member
I don't necessarily agree, but thanks for the explanation.
Dave
Well-known member
Neighbor has a lot of cows. 40+ bulls to get them all covered. Two thirds of his bulls are Charolais. 100% of the Charolais cross calves go down the road. All of the replacement heifers are either red or black.
Don't you need a pretty big cow to consistently deliver 120 lb. calves (without assistance)? Does it pencil out, spending more money to feed them?
Travlr
Well-known member
A cow that is "capable" of delivering 120 pounds of calf... not that I would be breeding them to have big calves. 90 pounds is the average I would be targeting. But I want capable cows, not cows that I have to be afraid if a calf is five pounds above average. This is why I like cows with a track record when breeding for replacements. Ten year old or better cows with a history of unassisted births.
I think the thing about cow size matters, but not as much as most other things we can select for. A 1200 pound cow that raises a 500 pound calf isn't as thrifty as a 1400 pound cow that raises a 600 pounder, IMO. Any cow that raises a 600 pound calf that looks just like every other cow in the herd is what I'm looking for regardless of what she weighs. It's the product she produces that's important.
Travlr
Well-known member
Edited for clarity...
Any cow that raises a 600 pound calf that looks just like every other CALF in the herd is what I'm looking for regardless of what the cow weighs. It's the product she produces that's important.
Silver
Well-known member
Around here the most terminal trait a calf could have would be to be born black.
Everyone has their version of terminal and maternal. One operation's terminal is another's maternal. There are good examples of success regardless of the governing philosophy.
Everyone has their version of terminal and maternal. One operation's terminal is another's maternal. There are good examples of success regardless of the governing philosophy.
simme
Old Dumb Guy
Many people might say that the most desirable cow is the one that makes the most profit. Putting limits around weight and birthweights may be an attempt to forecast that profit, but sometimes bias might creep in over time. Or maybe a result of experience on what makes money. Too many variables (enviroment and others) to look at just BW or cow size alone. But profit might be the one thing most likely to stand on its own.
StrojanHerefords
Well-known member
Environment plays a huge factor in birthweight. I have found that the calves born fall time in California are about 15 pounds lighter than their siblings born than their spring born Canadian siblings. For me, I have a larger problem with calves being born too light rather than too heavy. I do think short gestation is a problem.
I find it interesting that only the US places an emphasis on birthweight.
I find it interesting that only the US places an emphasis on birthweight.
