Calving ease bull? I'm not so sure

[3BMorne]

We recently bought a new bull, and the birthweights I'm seeing out of our older girls has me a bit nervous for the heifers we have coming up later in the year.

The girls are 4yo 3/4 Angus x fresian.
The bull is pure Angus. Supposedly top 30% for birthweight (as in low), top 35% calving ease, top 15% days to calving and gestation length in the bottom 35%.

Our earliest calf was 23 days early, based on 282 day gestation, and as of yesterday we've had half our girls calve.
The lightest birth weight we've recorded was 60lbs for a heifer twin, her brother was 85lbs. Everyone else has averaged in the 85-95 range.

Am I in for a lot of sleepless nights with my heifers or am I worrying over nothing? At this point I'm worried if any of my girls actually carry to term the calves will hop out of there fully grown!

 

[Dave]

That 1/4 Fresian could be causing the issue. Some years back I had some half Simmi/ half Holstein heifers. I bred them to an Angus bull. It was a train wreck. One of those experiments that did not work.

 

[3BMorne]

Hopefully that's all it is, my girls are handling it like champs but if it's the same situation with the straight angus heifers I'm in trouble

 

[CG1]

I don't have much to add other than most of my herd is Angus X Fresian. We have a great bull, makes great calves (red angus), but all the calves were quiet large. I use that same bull on jerseys and my mini cow. My X Friesian girls still have the biggest calves. Big tall lanky things. But they themselves were big calves, all over 100lbs

 

[TCRanch]

My girls are Angus, some Angus/Hereford and a couple Angus/Simm and all bred to CE Angus bulls. The older cows consistently have larger calves than the heifers. Were your heifers pelvic measured?

 

[Redgully]

I wouldn't be worried, a heifer will throw a smaller calf. Is it friesian cross or Holstein? Holstein have big calves.

 

[76 Bar]

IMO The female genetics, environment & mgt has a significant impact on calving ease. Top 30% Angus calving ease isn't what I'd recommend for heifers.

I wouldn't be worried, a heifer will throw a smaller calf.

I wouldn't go to the bank on that. :roll:

 

[3BMorne]

I wouldn't be worried, a heifer will throw a smaller calf. Is it friesian cross or Holstein? Holstein have big calves.

Could be Holstein tbh, all i know is they were crossed over angus for the last few generations from dairy cows.

 

[3BMorne]

IMO The female genetics, environment & mgt has a significant impact on calving ease. Top 30% Angus calving ease isn't what I'd recommend for heifers.

care to expand on that? I mean I think most people would agree that all those things have a significant impact on calving ease. What would you recommend for heifers then?

 

[SBMF 2015]

What are the bulls epd's?
A good rule of thumb is that hybrid viger will add ten pounds to a calf.
Where the hfrs pelvic measured?
You can cut back on their feed during the last trimester and take some pounds off the calf.

 

[3BMorne]

What are the bulls epd's?
A good rule of thumb is that hybrid viger will add ten pounds to a calf.
Where the hfrs pelvic measured?
You can cut back on their feed during the last trimester and take some pounds off the calf.

i have his ebv's not sure how well they translate to american epd's which is why I gave percentages.
Calving ease direct: +4.2
Gestation length: -3.5
Birth weight +3.5
Days to calving: -6.8

Forgot about hybrid vigour, thanks for the reminder.
They were not pelvic measured, all weighed 900lbs+ at joining so we werent too concerned at the time given that we thought we had a great calving ease bull on hand.

Theyre still about 4months out so we have a bit of time to correct and mitigate damage if we need to. Just trying to get a feel of some more experienced heads' opinions before I dive in and do something drastic.

 

[SBMF 2015]

What are the bulls epd's?
A good rule of thumb is that hybrid viger will add ten pounds to a calf.
Where the hfrs pelvic measured?
You can cut back on their feed during the last trimester and take some pounds off the calf.

i have his ebv's not sure how well they translate to american epd's which is why I gave percentages.
Calving ease direct: +4.2
Gestation length: -3.5
Birth weight +3.5
Days to calving: -6.8

Forgot about hybrid vigour, thanks for the reminder.
They were not pelvic measured, all weighed 900lbs+ at joining so we werent too concerned at the time given that we thought we had a great calving ease bull on hand.

Theyre still about 4months out so we have a bit of time to correct and mitigate damage if we need to. Just trying to get a feel of some more experienced heads' opinions before I dive in and do something drastic.

I tried to look up converting ebv to epd's. Couldn't quite find what I wanted. But I did read some on the Australian Angus web site. You read the calving ease the same, but I don't know if the scales are the same.
In EPD's CED +4 is not acceptable for heifers. Neither is BW +3.5.
But their bred now. So I would change their ration to grass or grass type hay and mineral. Calves grow the most the last trimester, so if you just maintain them the calves shouldn't be huge.
You'll just have to baby sit them when they get close.
You could still pelvic measure them just to get an idea if there are any that are way to small.
Good Luck.

 

[76 Bar]

What would you recommend for heifers then?

High accuracy calving ease AI bull and/or walking bull purchased from a program known & respected for being safe for heifers. Calf shape is infinitely more important than Bwt alone and equally, the heifer's desire to do her job.
Bwt of twins are an anomaly and shouldn't be a factor in the bigger picture. FWIW Its a grave mistake to think you can reduce calving difficulty by restricting nutritional needs. Cattle need to be in a BCS of 5-6 prior to calving and especially 1st CH's.

 

[SBMF 2015]

What would you recommend for heifers then?

High accuracy calving ease AI bull and/or walking bull purchased from a program known & respected for being safe for heifers. Calf shape is infinitely more important than Bwt alone and equally, the heifer's desire to do her job.
Bwt of twins are an anomaly and shouldn't be a factor in the bigger picture. FWIW Its a grave mistake to think you can reduce calving difficulty by restricting nutritional needs. Cattle need to be in a BCS of 5-6 prior to calving and especially 1st CH's.

A BCS of 5-6 yes. 7-8 and up no way! I've jacked huge calves out of hfrs that had been fed way to hard.
I think it's more of a Midwest problem. We have access to virtually unlimited feed supplies. So some producers feel that a ration that most of us would finish cattle on is just adequate for there bred hfrs. I've pulled calves and had gobs of internal fat come out with them.
So maybe backing them off is quite right, but I've seen it work and I sure wouldn't crowed them any.