calf problem, don't know what

[Sir Loin]

MM,
Re:

If you're going to make statements like that, you'd better have some proof to back your claims.

Fine, I'll do a little research for you, just as soon as you explain to me why anyone would treat a calf with both Banamine and Nulflor when there are absolutly no symptoms to indicate a digestive track or respatory problem.

IMO all the symptoms stated or observed from the pictures tell me that the calf was simply suffering from sleep deprivation due to external parasites and/or applied chemicals.

What symptoms did you read or see that would cause you to administer Banamine and Nulflor?
SL

 

[Alice]

ok...

Where I live there are lots of baby calf operations. The majority of these calves are holstein bulls bought from the auction, which lowers the odds of them living...considerably.

These operations are not one or two calves...I'm talking 100s of calves. At one time, I was raising 80...by myself.

Nuflor and Banamine are what ya' grab when one these little darlin's even looks funny....and that's not just me, now. It's the operations that have 100s of the baby calves. Most time, it works. Sometimes, it doesn't...but it's not because they are given in conjuction with each other.

The biggest problem with banamine is if it's given too often...it can cause gut problems in the same way aspirin can cause gut problems in humans...or so the vet told me. BUT, one shot of banamine with nuflor WILL NOT kill a calf.

Alice

 

[milkmaid]

SL, you're making a lot of dogmatic statements without proof, and unless you can prove the things you say on this board, all you're accomplishing is filling newbies heads with useless information. Back up your statements.

 

[Sir Loin]

MM,
I'm sorry, I must be having one of my reading comprehension moments.
Could you please answer this one again?

What symptoms did you read or see that would cause you to administer Banamine and Nulflor?

SL

 

[rockridgecattle]

snsfarms
Beginner

Quote:
Is he coughing and/or gurgling when he drinks from his bottle?

Yes yesterday in his afternoon feeding he did start gurgling when he would drink from the bottle.
Put my hand on his ribcage area and he did not feel raspy but you could hear it (not loud) but this morning and afternoon he is getting louder and is feeling raspy.
But still very aleart and once we stand him up he moves around well.

My daughter and husband are out washing his hinny up and legs. Daughter came in to say that places of hair was coming off as they washed those areas

I'd still give the electrolytes off and on...it seems to act as a "pick-me-up." Oh, give the calf a big slug of Probios!

My qoute abilities are not so good but my reading is.
And, Mr Sir Loin if you read the whole post you would have seen this part. First page half way down.

And if you knew your drugs, banamine is an anit inflamatory non steriodal pain med. no conflict with nuflor or Pen. And the pen was administered earlier on and the nuflor by the vet late at night. And if it did cause anaphalatic shock the vet was there and he would have more than likely noticed the signs becasue if there was anaphalatic shock it would have been due to a immediate alergic reation to the drug rather than your knee jerk reaction to bits and pieces and not the whole pic.

 

[larryshoat]

Is he coughing and/or gurgling when he drinks from his bottle?

Yes yesterday in his afternoon feeding he did start gurgling when he would drink from the bottle.
Put my hand on his ribcage area and he did not feel raspy but you could hear it (not loud) but this morning and afternoon he is getting louder and is feeling raspy.
quote]

This is enough evidence to support treatment for respiratory infection.We have used Banamine in conjunction with antibiotics on thousans of calves. It will not cause reactions in cattle .Banamine has been tested in cattle at up to 5 times the recomended dosage with no adverse results.It is hard enough for inexperienced calf raisers without volumes of misinformation

 

[Sir Loin]

rockridgecattle
Most calves will sound a little raspy when they are on their bottle.
If he had said he was a little raspy when he was not drinking, that would be a different story.

And if you would have read a little further you would have seen this!

Also when I offered him his bottle of electrolytes just a little while ago, I noticed he was not raspy.

See: Page 1 Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:08 pm

FYI: From the pic this calf shows no sign of fever or dehydration or internal infection.
The eyes are not watering (running), there is no nasal discharge (clear or yellowish green) and nasal passages appear moist.
Food is going in one end and coming out the other.
What he does show is total exhaustion from the lack of sleep which is most likely the result of infestation of external parasites.

And that's my store and I'm sticking to it until you (et al) can show me some symptoms to cause me to believe other wise.

Try again
SL

 

[rockridgecattle]

i have raise enough bottle calves to know a milk rasp and a pnemonia rasp while drinking the bottle
please read that post in whole and do not skip the smallest word.

Yes yesterday in his afternoon feeding he did start gurgling when he would drink from the bottle.
Put my hand on his ribcage area and he did not feel raspy but you could hear it (not loud) but this morning and afternoon he is getting louder and is feeling raspy.

If you need to read it again you should go to to the first page and start at the top. it's there in black and white

 

[Sir Loin]

Larryshoat


Re:

Banamine has been tested in cattle at up to 8000 times the recomended dosage with no adverse results.It is hard enough for inexperienced calf raisers without volumes of misinformation

I agree, there is volumes of misinformation on here.
So why don't you quote your source on this one?

Banamine has been tested in cattle at up to 8000 times the recomended dosage with no adverse results

And please don't forget the URL.
SL
PS Be sure to read my above post.
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:22 pm

Also when I offered him his bottle of electrolytes just a little while ago, I noticed he was not raspy.

;-)

 

[larryshoat]

Larryshoat


Re:

Banamine has been tested in cattle at up to 8000 times the recomended dosage with no adverse results.It is hard enough for inexperienced calf raisers without volumes of misinformation

I agree, there is volumes of misinformation on here.
So why don't you quote your source on this one?

Banamine has been tested in cattle at up to 8000 times the recomended dosage with no adverse results

And please don't forget the URL.
SL
PS Be sure to read my above post.
Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:22 pm

Also when I offered him his bottle of electrolytes just a little while ago, I noticed he was not raspy.

;-)

You are right I meant to write 5 times the dose.I have already corrected my post.I apologize.But while we are on the subject of proof where is yours?

 

[Sir Loin]

Rockridgecattle,

If you need to read it again you should go to to the first page and start at the top. it's there in black and white

Back atcha! So is this!

Also when I offered him his bottle of electrolytes just a little while ago, I noticed he was not raspy.

And that tells me what was fist thought as lung rasp was actually feeding gurgling.
Unless of course you believe we have just witnessed a mirical.
SL

 

[hillsdown]

Most calves will sound a little raspy when they are on their bottle.

NO THEY DON"T
How do I know because I have bottle fed over a thousand.First sign of respiratory problems is wheezing when drinking.Also if they are raspy/wheezing all the time it is probably to late.That is why you should catch them when they start wheezing while drinking from the bottle. Pneumonia is best treated in the early stages that is why diagnosis is so important at the onset of symptoms.



I am out of this because I do not want SNSfarms to stop coming on the boards.It is sad when you loose something you have put so much love and effort into.Bickering does not bring Fred back.Lets just hope that Red is doing well.

 

[msscamp]

MM,
Re:

If you're going to make statements like that, you'd better have some proof to back your claims.

...just as soon as you explain to me why anyone would treat a calf with both Banamine and Nulflor when there are absolutly no symptoms to indicate a digestive track or respatory problem.

I'm not milkmaid but, from the pictures, Fred was a very, very sick calf. The time of year is very conducive for pneumonia - i.e. hot days and cool nights - there are not many things that can bring on pneumonia faster than widely varying temperatures. Not all pneumonia cases display the raspy breathing at first, and quite a few of them lack a snotty nose at the beginning. This time of year, pnuemonia is generally diagnosed from experience and the behaviour of the calf - seperating, head hanging, depressed appetite, rattling while bottling due to reduced ability to breathe, just to name a few. If one waits for all symptoms to manifest, it is generally to late to save the calf. Banamine and Nuflor (or Baytril) are routinely used together - Banamine reduces fever, inflammation, and generally makes the calf feel better so he will at least try to eat, and that ratchets up the ability of the Nuflor/Baytril to knock out the pneumonia.

IMO all the symptoms stated or observed from the pictures tell me that the calf was simply suffering from sleep deprivation due to external parasites and/or applied chemicals.

And, IMO you again need to get your head out of your ass and get a clue about raising cattle.

What symptoms did you read or see that would cause you to administer Banamine and Nulflor?

You're the self-proclaimed expert on raising cattle - figure it out for yourself. :lol:

SL

 

[milkmaid]

MM,
I'm sorry, I must be having one of my reading comprehension moments.
Could you please answer this one again?

What symptoms did you read or see that would cause you to administer Banamine and Nulflor?

SL

First of all, I never said I would give banamine and nuflor. I never said I would do anything for the calf, in case you hadn't noticed. I'm not even discussing the calf -- the calf itself is irrelevant. We're discussing solid facts right now, and we're discussing medical drugs. You're the one who's spouting off information about the use of specific drugs, and you refuse to back up your claims. Now, where's the proof?

 

[rockridgecattle]

one time out of the better part of the day. I guess it does not matter what the vet said.
Read into it what you want. i know what i see and read and still does not support your hypothenuse of drug interaction.
you thrive on conflict so i am taking myself out of the equasion. Have fun!!!

 

[Alice]

MM,
I'm sorry, I must be having one of my reading comprehension moments.
Could you please answer this one again?

What symptoms did you read or see that would cause you to administer Banamine and Nulflor?

SL

First of all, I never said I would give banamine and nuflor. I never said I would do anything for the calf, in case you hadn't noticed. I'm not even discussing the calf -- the calf itself is irrelevant. We're discussing solid facts right now, and we're discussing medical drugs. You're the one who's spouting off information about the use of specific drugs, and you refuse to back up your claims. Now, where's the proof?

Darlin', don't hold your breath for any proof...there is none. Sir Loin is wrong...dang, dead wrong.

Alice

 

[Alice]

one time out of the better part of the day. I guess it does not matter what the vet said.
Read into it what you want. i know what i see and read and still does not support your hypothenuse of drug interaction.
you thrive on conflict so i am taking myself out of the equasion. Have fun!!!

Amen, sister! On all counts! Grrrrrrrrrr...

Alice

 

[rockridgecattle]

feeling a little hen pecked yet Mr Sir loin?
and yes

And, IMO you again need to get your head out of your ass and get a clue about raising cattle.

:x :x :x

 

[Alice]

Is he coughing and/or gurgling when he drinks from his bottle?

Yes yesterday in his afternoon feeding he did start gurgling when he would drink from the bottle.
Put my hand on his ribcage area and he did not feel raspy but you could hear it (not loud) but this morning and afternoon he is getting louder and is feeling raspy.
quote]

This is enough evidence to support treatment for respiratory infection.We have used Banamine in conjunction with antibiotics on thousans of calves. It will not cause reactions in cattle .Banamine has been tested in cattle at up to 5 times the recomended dosage with no adverse results.It is hard enough for inexperienced calf raisers without volumes of misinformation

This is enough evidence to support treatment for respiratory infection.

You dam skippy it is! And anybody that thinks otherwise hasn't been in the baby calf trenches.

Thank you, larryshoat!

alice

 

[Sir Loin]

MS,
Re:

And, IMO you again need to get your head out of your ass and get a clue about raising cattle.

You lost!
Not only can't you answer the question, you now engage in a personal attack.
Can't say as I'm surprised as it seems to be the way on this board by the uneducated.
Nice talking to ya!
SL

MM,
Again I'm sorry, but I still don't understand your answer.
Could you try it just one more time?

What symptoms did you read or see that would cause you to administer Banamine and Nulflor?

:roll:
SL