calf problem, don't know what

[snsfarms]

Thanks for the update on items to keep on hand.

We have a wonderful relationship with our Equine vet, but that is all that she works with. She is mobile and does a wonderful job with our equine, we just love her here at the farm. She has been a blessing to us.

There are two Bovine vets in our area, about the same distance to either office. But only deal with the one, But have called all large animals vets in/around our area today. Like I said before it has been a few years since we last had Bovine on our farm, but when we did we also had a great relationship with our Bovine vet. His office (one of them) is actually right on his farm where he too raises Bovine. Very informative vet and works with his clients very well.
My husband is actually gonna give him a call tonight at his home after 9PM to see if we can come to his home and get something for "Fred". He use to do this type of stuff for us in the past. Just he is not home as nobody is answering their home phone and the message on the office phone states they are out of town till late tonight.

We have found out that animals of all types hardly ever have an emergency type situation during normal business hours. Go figure...I think they have a alarm clock in their system somewhere that rings when the normal business hours are closed so they know that it is time for them to have an emergency just to see how fast their owner and vet can move to assist them.... I swear in the past 17 years I have spent more on vet bills then on doctor visits and meds for us humans on this farm....

 

[Sir Loin]

Sns,
Re:

So far today I have given him Probios, and Banamine. Yesterday he was given a shot of Pencil. and A D . He does not have a temp so far, I will keep checking.
How often do I give him the Probois and Banamine?

What you have done is fine. I see no need to give him any more Probes and Ban amine.
But I would put him on Kick start. One packet in one qt of water to start then 1 table spoon in his milk at each feeding for 3-4 days.
http://www.cattlestore.com/pc-812-54-im ... start.aspx
I get mine at Tractor Supply.

I don't think he is in any immediate danger as I think you said he is still taking his milk and I don't see any signs of a repertory infection.
The only thing I would recommend until the vet can take a look at him, if you don't have kick start, is to cut his milk re-placer in half. Not the water content, just the re-placer and add an aspirin to it. Also add ¼ tea spoon of table salt.

IMO, he is just exhausted and has muscle and joint aches from all the contorting he has been doing to reach his itches and licking them.
It is the licking that caused the sores that caused the flies to lay their eggs there.
The aspirin should relieve his body aches and pains.
And he may have ingested a large amount of hair by constantly licking himself.
Cutting his milk strength will make him ingest more water and wash it on through.

Now get some sleep as I don't think he is on deaths doorstep just yet.
We'll talk about your first aid kit latter.
SL

 

[MistyMorning]

You have probably washed this little guy enough, but I just remembered we used an iodine based liquid soap. Got it at the fleet store maybe in the horse section. I felt the iodine would help with the cleaning and disenfecting the sores.

Sir Loin, I am currently treating a sore hip on an older cow with aspirin, I didn't think it was that strange and some on this board have done it too and my vet said go for it, she would. You weren't alone!

snsfarms keep us posted.

 

[snsfarms]

We as a family would like to Thank each and everyone of you all for your help. You all have been wonderful.

Did get our vet out a little before 11 PM. We where told it's Fly Strike & Pnuemona. He gave him some Nulflor and something else (right now I'm not thinking right, sorry).
He was resting good after the vets visit.

But alittle after 2 AM we lost our little Fred. He is not in pain and will be in peace.

Thanks for all your help.
The Steele Family

 

[Sir Loin]

My most sincere condolences to the Steele family on your loss of Fred.
I'm sure the little guy will be greatly missed.
I know at this time it won't be much comfort to you but know this, you did every thing humanly possible and really did give Fred the best possible care, and that is all anyone can do.

If the question "why" really starts bothering you and you need answers, here is a place to start.
http://www.nda.agric.za/docs/parasites/parasites.htm

Please try to have a nice day.

SL

 

[rockridgecattle]

Sorry for your loss. Take away the experience of this and then you will know for next time.
I know when you do everything possible and loose it's hard. Good luck witht he rest of herd.

RR

 

[Alice]

I'm sorry to hear that, Snsfarms. It's hard to lose one...especially after trying everything to keep the calf alive. Pnuemonia, especially in this heat, is a tough one to conquer.

Alice

 

[MistyMorning]

Hang in there snsfarms you tried your best, sorry for the loss.

 

[milkmaid]

are you keeping Red outside in the yard? or how is he "housed"?

 

[Rod]

Now i remember why I don't raise bottle babbies !!

 

[Sir Loin]

OK people the $64,000 question is:
What killed Fred?
A. Pneumonia
B. Fly Strike
C. Medication

Bonus question:
What do you see in the pictures taken Aug. 18 2007 of Fred that indicates he may have a problem? It is also present in the picture titled “Fred (my sick calf)” posted on Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:13 pm.
SL

 

[rockridgecattle]

the vet already stated what killed Fred.

doesn't matter what any one says. If it contradicts what you think then it's wrong and there would be no conciving you of the truth. You will just spue and spin the truth according to Sir Loin.
So to answer your $64 000.00 question would be a waste of our time and yours.

 

[larryshoat]

Fred is probably one of those calves that at about day 5 had a terrible case of E-coli salmonela scours.About the time he partialy recovered from that the rota virus and carona virus hit.About day 10 cryptosporidia furthered the challege,which is probably the cause of the missing patches of hair.About week 3 is right on time for respiratory problems.Thus Freds death just like the vet said.Calves like Fred just seem to get the
disease of the week until they just can't fight it any longer.

Larry

 

[Earl Thigpen]

Thanks for your reply Sir Lion.

I was hoping that his new pictures would help with maybe someone being able to tell what his problem is at this point.

The only reason I want the maggots gone is they get all over me and I have heard that they can eat a calf alive pretty much. So figured get rid of them to help him out if possible at this time.

Have put a few calls in to farms around us to see if anyone has any stuff on hand that we might be able to give this little guy till the vets office opens in the morning. So far no luck as everyones answering machines are picking up being a holiday most folks are with family members for dinner and what not like that. But still not losing hope as I'm sure someone will get home soon and hopefully will have something to bring to him....

So far today I have given him Probios, and Banamine. Yesterday he was given a shot of Pencil. and A D . He does not have a temp so far, I will keep checking.
How often do I give him the Probois and Banamine?
Trip to vet tomorrow so please tell me what all should I ask him to give to us to keep on hand for when something like this or worse happens and we can not get to the office or get the vet out here?[/b]

At the risk of getting the whole board down on me again I need to say:

You don't need to buy your meds at the vet. They are available at your local feed and seed dealer (most of them are).

Alice and the other folks have given you some very good advice. Do it.

At one point you said your not worried about the maggots. You need to be worried. Provide your animals with a clean place to stay and the maggots will go away. Keep your animals clean and the maggots will not be an issue. I perfer to use injectable Ivermectin rather than pour on. JMO Inject it in the neck.

 

[dun]

At the risk of getting the whole board down on me again I need to say:

You don't need to buy your meds at the vet. They are available at your local feed and seed dealer (most of them are).

The only antibiotics available around here from the feed store is pen and LA200. For the serious antibiotics they still have to come from a vet.

 

[larryshoat]

. I perfer to use injectable Ivermectin rather than pour on. JMO Inject it in the neck.[/quote]Injectable wormers are fine but need to be used in conjunctoin with a pour on for external parasites.The only external killed will be those that consume the blood . Example -Sucking lice would be killed ,biting lice would not.

 

[Sir Loin]

Re:

What killed Fred?
A. Pneumonia
B. Fly Strike
C. Medication

IMO, it was the combination of Banamine, Nulflor and Penicillin.
Around here that is known as the killum or cureum treatment and is used when you don't know what else to do.
I have found that administering both Banamine and Nulflor within a 24 hr period is a sure way to get a 50% chance that the calf will die. And if you also administer Penicillin the probability of death goes to around 60%.
IMO there was absolutely nothing in the narrative portion of any of snsfarms posts or pictures to lead anyone to believe that these antibiotics were even needed.
IMO a 3 days of OTC LA-200 would have been a much better route to take.

IMO Fred died of Anaphylactic shock from an over dose of antibiotics.

Re:

Bonus question:
What do you see in the pictures taken Aug. 18 2007 of Fred that indicates he may have a problem? It is also present in the picture titled "Fred (my sick calf)" posted on Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:13 pm.

A. The position of his rear legs while lying down.

SL

 

[milkmaid]

Re:

What killed Fred?
A. Pneumonia
B. Fly Strike
C. Medication

IMO, it was the combination of Banamine, Nulflor and Penicillin.

Whatever. :roll:

If you're going to make statements like that, you'd better have some proof to back your claims. Let's hear some good solid, scientific evidence supporting your hypothesis that giving nuflor and banamine in a 24 hour period results in a 50% chance of the calf dying.

 

[hillsdown]

MM I was going to comment that the dehydration was another animal but I see you must have remembered and edited your post.On a side note I think that both calves in the second pictures looked like they are sick.IMO if you don't catch an treat pneumonia right away you have a less than 50% chance of survival even with the new wonder drugs.Also a high fever can cause hair loss as well.

 

[milkmaid]

MM I was going to comment that the dehydration was another animal but I see you must have remembered and edited your post.On a side note I think that both calves in the second pictures looked like they are sick.IMO if you don't catch an treat pneumonia right away you have a less than 50% chance of survival even with the new wonder drugs.Also a high fever can cause hair loss as well.

Yeah, I remembered that after I posted... the edit button is a wonderful thing. :lol:

I agree that both calves in the second set of pics don't look that great... which was why I asked earlier where they were housed. FWIW for the Steele family if they're still around, calves on the cow do great outside in a pasture, and they really do best that way, but bottle calves are a different story. There's a reason dairies keep them housed separately, in their own little 10x4 (or smaller) pen, and it's because they have a much lower chance of getting sick, or sucking on each other's navels, ears, tails, etc and creating other problems. Besides that... they really thrive in their own little "cubicle", contrary to what some folks would like to think.

My guess on the hair loss would have been a fever as well, esp as the calf was a downer... fevers take energy and often times it leaves bottle calves too weak to get up.