calf down, need help

[candeejocox]

we have ten calves we purchased as stocker calves, to sell later this year, while at the auction, I couldnt help it and purchased a 5 dollar holstein calf. I know these bottle calves tend to die easily, but I bought him anyways. he is holstein/angus cross. He was 90 pounds when i bought him, and already been bottle fed. He received bovine gold, and dectamax, and did very well for two months. then a month ago, when it got really cold, (we live in washington), he was very unstable and wobbly. He wouldnt eat, we immidiately went and got him Nuflor, and he was back to normal the next day. I assume he had pnuemonia?

anyways it had been about a month, of good normal health, and now, new years eve, he went down in one of the shelters, he had extreme scours/diarhea, smelt HORRIBLE, and a snotty nose. He ate, but slowly. I gave him LA 200 and penicilin, and he did not recover at all. When he ate hisbottle his stomach made a lot of noise, gargeling. I got Draxxin from the vet, and gave it to him SubQ new years day. He ate his bottle quickly that evening. so i thought he was doing better.
Yesterday, he was eating his bottles normal/pushy like always, and drinking water well and eating grain, his stools were regular thickness but light colored. I gave him penicilin that evening on top of Draxxin just to push antiobiotics. we gave him warm water frequently day and night.
Today, he still will not get up. i am rotating him so hes not stuck on one side. He has his head up and eats well, acts normal, minus he wont get up! his nose is no longer runny. his stools look normal color and thickness. no wierd stomach sounds. I feel like i have given him everything i can and he looks a lot better he just wont get up.
is there a max they can be down for and still get back up? any other ideas on waht to give him? I have had him since october now.

thank you for any help!

 

[angie1]

Does the calf have a fever? If you read this and don't know, go check before responding so you can provide that information. It matters.

I would not advise using penicillin in tandem with the draxxin, it is like using a flyswatter when a hammer doesn't drive the nail ~ penicillin won't help, and will just add to any digestive issues. Draxxin is a power house med.

Talk to your vet about trying banamine, it would be interesting to see it that would help that calf get itself off the ground.

Give that calf on probiotics today ~ get the paste kind in a tube. You can get them at the feed store. They are cheap, but essential.

It is good that you are turning it. Needless to say, if it doesn't get up it will die. See if you can get it to stand while it takes a bottle. Can it stand at all? Your calf in now in a clean dry place I am assuming?

Check to see if the calf is dehydrated by tenting the skin. You will want the skin that you pull up to lay back flat when released. In a dehydrated calf it will slowly (or not at all) return to place. Maybe it is weak from dehydration. Does it have free choice of water at all times?

I try to stay with these calves for as long as they are willing to keep fighting. It is good to hear that you are working with a vet on this as well!

 

[glacierridge]

What else did your vet recommend?
I had the misfortune of recently dealing with a bad case of scours.
It was a day old beef calf from a heifer. I think he caught the E. Coli strain (there are different bacteria that can cause a calf to have scours)
And maybe he wasn't as strong as the calves from the COWS because of the drought conditions and his dam is still trying to grow.
Anyway, this little guy went down at about 24 hours old, we treated with pen, intestisorb and revitalite gelling electrolytes (with a tube feeder).
He was down 2 1/2 days, which is the longest I have ever seen a calf down that made a recovery. It took about 5-6 days for him to be feeling pretty solid again. I thought he was going to be a goner.
And while he was down we also kept moving him around, to get circulation going and (maybe I sound bat shyt crazy) but I think touch helps them keep the will to live, if he were being raised by a cow, she would "mother him up" not saying you need to lick or bathe the poor thing, but if while you treat them, stroke their neck to encourage swallowing. It's also soothing for a young animal to get a little loving while it's sick, I've seen them respond very positively to touch in addition to just medical treatment. We had to help our calf up the first couple times, when he was feeling better enough to try, I think it doesn't hurt to give them a hand either, it also encourages their will to live, to get back on their feet.
I have seen animals with "will" come through some pretty dismal situations.
All the medicine in the world won't help if they've given up.

Most important thing is to make sure they start retaining fluid again. The dehydration will kill them faster than the actual bug will.
He may still be down because he is very weak. I would also recommend probiotics, along with electrolytes, he could be not having enough potassium among other nutrients necessary for muscle function. Keep an eye on his stools, the second it looks looser, give him something to tighten him up, you don't want him going into relapse before he even gets a chance to improve.

What strain does your vet think it may be? I know most hit calves before one month of age, I'm not to familiar with the bugs that hit them when they are older.

 

[snake67]

What else did your vet recommend?

Best question asked

Bez

 

[glacierridge]

What else did your vet recommend?

Best question asked

Bez

Sad part is, even vets don't have all the answers and can save every animal, but they sure are a great resource most of the time.

 

[backhoeboogie]

What else did your vet recommend?

Best question asked

Bez

Sad part is, even vets don't have all the answers and can save every animal, but they sure are a great resource most of the time.

There is an angus cow in my pasture that was down for a week. VET gave up on her and the owner gave me a call, "You want her?" I got her up and have taken 4 calves from her now.

What bothers me about this thread is that the original post did not state whether or not the calf had a temp. Just meds the vet prescribed. First thing a vet is going to do is ask about a temp like Angie did. Makes me wonder if there is really a vet involved or if that vet is worth a darn.

 

[candeejocox]

Ok for some reason it didnt post my section about yesterday. I returned to vet and he wanted to try a new mix so he gave me The vet gave me nuflor and a mix of banamene and dexamethasone. So he's had just about every kind of anti biotic right? He did try the banamene I thought that would of helped to. The vet said, it may help him get up and give u a fake feel better for a while, it did not.

Yeah I heard draxxin was great so I was dissapointed it did nothing. Well I guess his nose and stools cleared up but getting up wise. I do not have a thermometer. I'm a hour from town and its pure ice all the way there, if I go back I will get one. If he did have a temp what would I try differently?

Yesterday we tried to pick him up thinking his legs must be getting no circulation. He's about 250 pounds so it was difficult. We got a tow strap on the fence and under his flank and had him standing on his own for a few minutes, then he turned and wobbled back to his calf hut a few feet away and collapsed.

Yes he is in a dry hut w hay and a heat lamp. He is w two small heifer calves that lay with him at night for warmth. It is still very cold tho. He also had a small blanket on!

Those three things are all my vet offered and he had little hope. He knows this is a cheap calf and discourages my trying the nuflor and banamene yesterday.. But when I admitted to knowing in putting to much money into him and he's the one pet in the herd he agreed.

His skin seems normal dehydration test wise and I've given him bottles every few hours of milk replacer or warm water even at night so he shouldn't be dehydrated. I'm really putting everything I got into him energy wise and am getting discouraged nothing is helping him get up.

Late last night at midnight he did have runny poop again. He is still very alert like yesterday and no more nasty snot and cough. He seems himself drinking energy wise.

I hope I Gave enough feed back. It's hard in my phone . Any ideas? If he's down a week can he still get up?

I got probiotic tube and did that this morning along w scours pnumonea medicated milk replacer

 

[backhoeboogie]

Banamine should not only help with fever (does he have one) but it should also help with any swelling. Nuflour is good stuff too. If he has any kind of respiratory issues, those two meds should knock it. But we still don't know what's wrong. What is his temperature?

You are not doing bad at all for an Iphone, but there is not enough information for anyone to diagnose anything.

 

[candeejocox]

Agsin, I do not have a thermometer and I can get one when we get back to town. What could I do differently if he did have a tempature? Any other info I can give u?

After draxxin and nuflor and banamene his nose cleared up, his scours stopped and he is alert and eating great. Just wont get up now

 

[iowafarmer]

Just curious as to why you are still giving a 250 pound calf that is 2 to 3 months old bottles still? Is he on any type of feed, hay, does he have water at all times? If all he is getting is bottles how much does he get and how often?

 

[candeejocox]

We were in the process of weaning him when he got sick a month ago, so we continued a few more weeks just to give him extra nutrients. Heck they nurse until they are 600 pounds in some operators? He was down to a bottle a day, I know it's not needed but I've been told the longer u can do it the more beneficial it will be. Again this steer is a 5 dollar calf we are not in him for the money, he just was an extra random purchase when we for our stocker calves. He is a pet. I am bottling him extra now to be sure he's getting nutrients, hoping he can get energy and stand.

He eats w the rest of the calves good quality grass/Timothy hay and are on loose mineral free choice and grain once a day. Yes they have water free choice w water heaters

 

[candeejocox]

Thank you guys for the probiotic idea. I asked the vet this morning if that would be ok to give him after the drugs we tried yesterday and he said give it a shot. Hopefully that will be the kicker to get him up.
Like I said his snotty nose and scours cleared up and appetite and alertness are all back, now to get him back up. Like I says yesterday he walked a bit and stood a bit, just weak.

 

[candeejocox]

Also i didn't ask recovery speed for the nuflor he got yesterday. If that works, would he show total improvement already ? Maybe it's still working on him. I know it's a long lasting antibiotic correct?

 

[jerry27150]

why would you give penicillan a day after draxxin. draxxin is slow acting, but lasts for a week. sometimes pen goes bad & can almost paralyze a calf

 

[candeejocox]

We tried four antibiotics . La, nuflor, draxxin and penicillin. The penicillin along w all other drugs were new and my calf is not paralyzed. The vet is aware of each drug he has been given. I'm seeking advice on new ideas not criticism .

I posted a comment about him being bottle fed but it doesn't look
To have gone thru. He was in the process of being weaned. He was getting milk solely to help
Add weight on him bc he was very thin when we got him. He eats good quality hay from our buffalo feed, he has loose mineral free choice and water free choice. He along w the beef cattle get grained daily. He was down to a bottle at night, now that he's sick I'm giving him two or three bc he isn't eating much hay. But is eating his grain.
Thank you

 

[iowafarmer]

Was not criticising just asking questions. Most dairy calves get wenaed off the bottle and onto grain and hay as soon as they can becasue milk replacer is expensive. Just an idea but if he is quite a bit smaller than the stockers maybe you should feed him seperate to make sure he gets enough and doesn't get pushed off from the feed by bigger claves.

 

[angie1]

The vet said, it may help him get up and give u a fake feel better for a while, it did not.
The fake feel better is what you're looking for. Its like taking a ibuprofin. He needs to get up.

Yeah I heard draxxin was great so I was dissapointed it did nothing. Well I guess his nose and stools cleared up but getting up wise. I do not have a thermometer. I'm a hour from town and its pure ice all the way there, if I go back I will get one. If he did have a temp what would I try differently?
I understand your disappointment. Further down you ask about the nuflor. Nuflor is another good drug and you should have seen results from it within 24 hours. You treat an illness with a temp different than one without. A temp is indicative of an infection. Without the temp you can start looking at other options. If your calf had *no* temp, I would say lay off the drugs. Its a useful tool in narrowing down the problem, and if you can narrow down the problem it is easier to fix.

Yesterday we tried to pick him up thinking his legs must be getting no circulation. He's about 250 pounds so it was difficult. We got a tow strap on the fence and under his flank and had him standing on his own for a few minutes, then he turned and wobbled back to his calf hut a few feet away and collapsed.
Try to do this several times a day. It would really be good for him!

Yes he is in a dry hut w hay and a heat lamp. He is w two small heifer calves that lay with him at night for warmth. It is still very cold tho. He also had a small blanket on!
Another thing you would get rid of if there wasn't a fever, and a lot on here are thinking even with the fever. Dry and out of the elements is the most important thing, but I put a heat lamp on my sick ones so who am I to tell you not to.

Those three things are all my vet offered and he had little hope. He knows this is a cheap calf and discourages my trying the nuflor and banamene yesterday.. But when I admitted to knowing in putting to much money into him and he's the one pet in the herd he agreed.
That is a stupid thing for your vet to say. A calf is a calf. I agree you have to draw the line somewhere and money is a factor, but to me the cost of your medical intervention in this case is due the calf.

His skin seems normal dehydration test wise and I've given him bottles every few hours of milk replacer or warm water even at night so he shouldn't be dehydrated. I'm really putting everything I got into him energy wise and am getting discouraged nothing is helping him get up.
Try not to get discouraged. I do understand how frustrating it can be! I admire your efforts, you're doing A LOT of things right! If the little ones dies, you have learned more than a little, and you can know you did your best.

I hope I Gave enough feed back. It's hard in my phoneAny ideas? If he's down a week can he still get up?
The longer he is down, the harder it is to get him back up. Keep up with the antibiotics. I thought that keeping him on the bottle through this was a GREAT idea. I don't know if he is going to get back up, the longer he is down, the harder it is to get up, but you know that.

You are doing a good job! Let us know how it turns out!

*Edited to say "no" temp instead of "a" temp.

 

[Sir Loin]

candeejocox
Sounds to me like the calf is suffering from malnutrition. ( Can not get up or stand on his own.)
As he does not appear to be dehydrated which indicates his large intestines are working properly I would suspect his small intestines as the cause of his malnutrition.

I suspect his small intestines have been damaged by being introduced to too course of “ grain “ at to early an age.

I would suggest you discontinue the “grain “ stuff you are feeding if you can visually recognize corn as one of the ingredients and put him on milk only for 3-4 days ? ( until only milk comes out the back end ) then slowly introduce him to a palletized calf starter along with the milk.

Hope this helps and good luck.
SL

 

[angie1]

candeejocox
Sounds to me like the calf is suffering from malnutrition. ( Can not get up or stand on his own.)
As he does not appear to be dehydrated which indicates his large intestines are working properly I would suspect his small intestines as the cause of his malnutrition.

I suspect his small intestines have been damaged by being introduced to too course of “ grain “ at to early an age.

I would suggest you discontinue the “grain “ stuff you are feeding if you can visually recognize corn as one of the ingredients and put him on milk only for 3-4 days ? ( until only milk comes out the back end ) then slowly introduce him to a palletized calf starter along with the milk.

Hope this helps and good luck.
SL

I strongly disagree with this post and encourage you to disregard.
And no, SL, I am not going to get into a debate with you.

 

[James T]

Candeejo, you might go this link http://www.vet.cornell.edu/consultant/consult.asp which might help you to figure out your calfs problem. The more information you can provide about the symptoms, the better. For example, just inputting "inability to stand" will net you over 350 diagnoses. Getting him out of the weather will help, as will his eating solids with the support of liquids added with whatever the deficiency might be.