Calf died after trailering

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My husband and I have a dilemna and we are looking for some advice/opinions. Here is the situation:

We were boarding an 8-month-old brahma cross bull calf for a friend until two weeks ago when he picked him up. The calf was in fine condition when he left.

We received an email tonight that the calf was taken care of poorly while he was here and was so weak that he couldn't even stand when they got him off the trailer and he died two days later. They say this is a direct result of the care we provided (or didn't provide, they say). They are saying the following:

-The calf was in 18 inches of mud
- Not true. We keep about ten head of bulls in our roping arena and the pen off the side of the arena where the waterer is does get muddy, not 18 inches deep though, and they're not forced to stand in it by any means, they have a whole arena.

-The calf was in poor condition
- We saw no signs that the calf was sick or malnutritioned or anything. If we had, we would have done something about it.

-We lost another calf due to neglect
- We did lose a calf that same day. However, neglect certainly played no role in this. We raise rodeo bulls and one of our bulls must have hooked our calf because he had a big gash on his side and some broken ribs. We were guessing punctured lung, not mud.... That's not a result of neglect, it's just something that happens with these kind of cattle. Five years in the business and this is the first one we've lost to fighting and that's a pretty good track record.

Now here is what I saw that I believe could have contributed to the calf's death and this is the part I need the opinions on.

- The calf was loaded in the early morning hours of a very cold day. It was well below freezing and the single axle horse trailer they hauled him in had open slots at the top and no bedding was provided.

- He was hauled by himself so he had no other animal to huddle with for body heat. No bedding, no body heat......

- Since he had been in the pen with mud on him he was probably wet. Not soaked, but wet enough that it decreased his natural insulation.

- Ever drive a single axle trailer? I bet that sucker was bouncy as all get out with only one 400 pound calf in it.

- The calf had never been trailered before in his life (except from the cow pasture to the arena at weaning) and rodeo cattle are pretty high strung and stress quite easily.

Four hours later, the calf is unloaded and unable to stand. Two days later he dies....... Any thoughts on what might have caused this?

My question is, are we really to blame for this? Our friend is upset and is wanting money or cattle in exchange for this calf he lost and we don't feel that is necessary. We had already cut him a huge break on boarding his cattle here for over a year and although we try to help friends out as much as possible, we struggle to pay the feed bill for our own animals sometimes, let alone someone else's. We feel bad that he lost his calf and we don't want to jeopardize our friendship over cattle but we also don't feel obligated to compensate him for his loss.

Thoughts much appreciated :) Thank you.
 
Just curious as how they know there was 18" of mud and that the calf was in poor condition? Did they pick up the calf and haul it? If so, did they say anything about this when they picked the calf up?
I would think hauling under conditions you described could have been the problem.
 
Sounds like a sticky wicket to me no matter how you handle the situation.

Explain your side of the facts, and then ask him what he wants?

Sorry it happened to you.

Likely you will no longer be friends after this.

Lesson learned.

I have a partner in several of my cattle, and we have a worked out agreement regarding losses. :cboy:
 
Partnership on these kinds of things rarely ever work out to everybodys satisfaction. Avoid partnerships at all cost. It ain't worth loosing a friend. ;-)
 
IMO,

1. Friends are not worth losing over a cow.

2. You may have given him a sweetheart deal, but now it does not matter how much you charged him to board, only that you charged him.

3. If this person is a true friend, why not offer to have a necropsy (sp?) done, at your cost. You can explain your side to him, and if the necropsy shows the cause of death to be something of your doing, honor his wishes. If, however, it shows otherwise, let him take the hit. It's the only way out I see that's fair. Ofcourse you will have to pay for the necropsy, but I'd pay that in a heartbeat to not lose a true friend.

4. If you don't want to go the necropsy route, then just give him what he feels fair in cattle. It would probably be cheaper for you. You pick what cow he can have.

It really just depends how much you want to save the friendship. Another thing to consider: your reputation. Wouldn't want him bad mouthing you. Reputation is something that is hard to get but easy to lose.

Hope this helps!
 
cypressfarms":3fvm9fi0 said:
IMO,

1. Friends are not worth losing over a cow.

I agree, but no matter how it comes out this friendship is pretty well down the toilet. If you pay and feel it's unfair then you have a grudge, if you don;t, then they have a grudge. Doing "business" with friends is almost as deadly as doing it with relatives.

dun
 
Can cows get "shipping fever"? Is there a medicine for that to help prevent sickness like that?
 
RebelCritter":2ea76qip said:
Can cows get "shipping fever"? Is there a medicine for that to help prevent sickness like that?

Anything can get shipping fever but older cattle are generally less likely. Shipping fever isn;t any one thing, it's a complex of things but usually the snots or pneumonia is what's commonly considered shipping fever. For younger calves we used to give them a blast of Nuflor when we unmloaded them. That's the only time we used an antibiotic without an obvious problem.

dun
 
I have to ask. Was this calf picked up in a U-Haul?

;-)

I agree with the other posts. The damage is done. If you don't want it to continue festering ask what your friend thinks is a good solution. If it costs you something it will probably be a good investment.

Bret
 
Were probably several factors that contributed to animal's death. My suggestion is to do whatever will appease the "customer" and consider this a lesson learned. I also think, the customer was negligent in his/her pick-up and haul of the animal under those weather conditions. Also, you probably should have offered and put bedding in their trailer, even if they didn't think it was needed.

In our situation, we occasionally board one or more cattle. When we board, we provide one of our "best" pens/small pastures. Their animals are by themselves with none of ours in their area. They have their own shed, dry place to stay. We are careful and make sure "their" animals are properly vaccinated & de-wormed before they get here. If not, they are put in a "quarantine holding pen" and re-vaccinated, de-wormed before put in "their" small pasture; and, they pay for this treatment. If they don't agree on the medical care, we won't accept their animals for boarding! We don't need any "sick" animals arriving at our place.

We are a "TAHC TB Accredited & Brucellosis Certified Disease Free Herd"
 
Thank you all so much for the feedback. We are going to try to work with our friend to work something out to save our friendship but we haven't decided what yet.

The necropsy is an idea we had too but since he picked the calf up almost three weeks ago I doubt the dead calf is still around. I wish they would have told us about the calf's death sooner so we could have determined the actual cause of death. I gladly would have paid for a vet to examine it.

Thanks again :)
 
Three weeks? Are you sure he just didn't sell him and is trying to make a double profit. JMO
 
This is all I am going to say on the subject as to the people that lost the calf crap happens get over it. If you ain't got them can lose them. If that calf was that important should have cared for theirself.
 
Good lesson on doing favors...won't stop helping neighbors, but will break out the digital camera and have a record on hand and will have a pre-exit inspection done by the "friend" before the animal leaves the farm. DMc
 
Caustic Burno":1xzvnzo1 said:
This is all I am going to say on the subject as to the people that lost the calf crap happens get over it. If you ain't got them can lose them. If that calf was that important should have cared for theirself.

I agree, if it left alive without question at your farm the rest is on them or the hauler.

MD
 
if you fellers are raising rodeo bulls leaving weaned bulls in the same pen with mature bulls is not a good idea.they aint got a chinamans chance. did you feed him with these other bulls?this is one of those situations were it would be nice to know both sides
 
I think your 'friend' is totally wrong. Any time a animal is picked up here, i.e., sold to someone and they haul them they are told that that is your animal, if it breaks in half you own both halves.

Offer to pay him back the money he paid for boarding, if he paid nothing you two are even.
 
What did the calf die from?

Did he have a vet check it out?

The calf was so weak it couldnt stand when they got it off the trailor yet they didn't notice anything wrong when it was loaded? And they didnt call a vet?

It was two days before it died and they didnt call a vet?

If they did call a vet what did he say?

Mud doesnt kill cows.....mine are forced to slop around in it every spring when the snow melts and I don't lose cows to mud.....never have. It can cause some problems but these are usually pretty easy to spot and deal with in my experience.

Sub freezing temperatures + high winds can kill a cow. Trailering young animals can cause stress which can lead to illness. Having not seen the trailor don't know if this is what really did it but since the guy didn't bother to have a vet look at the animal nobody knows what really killed the animal.

If the animal was in good health when it was loaded then I think your end of the deal was held up.

Whether or not you're willing to give in just to appease the guy is up to you.

Personally I wouldn't....with friends like that who needs enemies.

The calf died two days after it was moved and they didn't bother saying anything until weeks later?
IMO they should have called you immediately when they got it back there and noticed something wrong. They also should have called a vet since they obviously didn't know what was wrong with the calf or how to treat it.
 
I agree with salty. If it was that weak while being unloaded, why did they not call that day, or at the very least, the day it died??? Also, to me, if they thought that its treatment was bad at your place, why did they not say something about it when they loaded it, especially if it was terribly weak, yet again. I know that if I had left a calf for someone to take care of and, when we got it back to the farm and it appeared extremely sick, I would call the one who boarded it immediately. Hope the situation works out for the best and I have definately learned a lesson from your experience.
 

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