calf can't stand up

[Ouachita]

Well, after having one momma abort a few weeks ago, I've had 7 calves in 7 days I think thats pretty good considering I only have 15 mommas. The one born last night has trouble standing. Front feet turned backwards. Seen a topic discussing this very thing a few weeks/months ago, but can't find it. Anybody help me find it? It discussed options including splints, working the joints so many time a days, or doing nothing and letting nature take it's course. Calf is otherwise healthy, good momma hasn't left it's side. I have been able to hold it up and suck just a bit, and have seen it manage a time or two by itself. I just hate seeing the litter bugger fall down without getting enough.

 

[DavisBeefmasters]

Do a search for "contracted tendons" and I'm sure you will find what you need.

 

[agmantoo]

Did you make certain that the calf got some colostrum yesterday? Help the calf along for a few days so that it can get milk and it may come around on its own.

 

[Victoria]

Give it a selenium shot and make sure it is eating to keep it's strength up. I don't know about your area but here if the calf isn't better then in a couple days I repeat the selenium shot as we are in a selenium low area. Talk to your vet about that.

 

[Ouachita]

I appreciate the replies. The calf got colostrum. I held it up to momma off and on for 2 hours last evening. More off than on :lol2: . It's so hard to gauge how much they get when doing it like this. So, my wife started a bottle this morning. (i was at work when I first posted). After my wifes observations, and I agree, the calf was probably premature. I weighed the calf at 41 pounds. Now the bull I put on them last August was a low BW bull, I have been very surprised at how LOW weight all my calves have been. All have been 55-60 pounds except for this problem calf..
Back to the problem calf.... momma is still standing guard, but allowing me to handle her baby however I wish. Momma cow has allowed me to hold the calf, and let the calf suck. But here again, I didn't think calf was getting enough. (it's a hard position to hold, for me and the calf for very long). Thus the reason for going to bottle. Bottle milk is coming from jersey that calved 3 days ago, and she will hold still long enoung to milk in the field (you still have to use your imagination here :lol2: ). Cool. Calf is getting better.
I think I was wrong to assume contracted tendons. The calf seems to have good use of front legs, but lackadaisical use of arse end. Kind of an imbalance problem. That has improved today. I don't know what the deal is. Maybe calf got stepped on, or maybe birthing problem, but seems to be getting better. Has been nursing, but for only seconds at a time unless I hold her up. Momma cow ain't giving up, and we are just assisting as we feel necessary. Got a good bottle mix going on in addition to momma cows contribution. Will let all know how this turns out. Gonna be a long night
We had 2 more calves today. All is well.

 

[Isomade]

Bumblefoot
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=71580

 

[Crazy Farmgirl]

Do you know if your area is selenium deficient? Sounds like it could be selenium def. weak muscles and uncoordinated. contact your vet to find out if it's an issue in your area. My area is very deficient so cows get Bose shot twice a year and all calves get it at birth, cheaper than dealing with weak, sickly or dead calves.

 

[agmantoo]

Just a caution, do not overfeed this small calf. Keeping it a little hungry will make the calf aggressive about trying to get up and eat. I would not give the calf too much of milk or from different sources as that will bring on diarrhea. At 41 lbs what it gets from momma plus a quart twice a day should keep it going and seeking milk from momma. Overfeeding IMO kills more calves than insufficient feeding as folks want their calf to blossom. They unintentionally kill the calf with what was intended to be kindness.

 

[Ouachita]

Just a caution, do not overfeed this small calf. Keeping it a little hungry will make the calf aggressive about trying to get up and eat. I would not give the calf too much of milk or from different sources as that will bring on diarrhea. At 41 lbs what it gets from momma plus a quart twice a day should keep it going and seeking milk from momma. Overfeeding IMO kills more calves than insufficient feeding as folks want their calf to blossom. They unintentionally kill the calf with what was intended to be kindness.

Thanks for advice agman. I agree with you. I instructed wife and daughter to monitor calf and only give half quart if it hadn't nursed by 2pm.
We had some Vitamin E with selenium in powder form that I mixed with the milk last evening and gave a shot of B, and calf agressively drank just shy of one quart. Although calf was doing still better this AM, I took to vet. Calf was doing much better in front of the vet, of course, but he agreed the calf may be slightly premature, possible injury during birth, possibly white muscle disease (I think that was the term). Vet gave calf a shot of B, E, and selenium, and sent 2 more rounds home with me to give on Sunday, and then on Tuesday. Took calf and daughter back home, and off to work I went.
Just got a call from my daughter who said the calf is now balancing much better, and taking steps, and hopping around. Still falls often, but is definately using those muscles and is becoming more coordinated by the hour. Momma cow is taking good care and I think I'll be able to report a good outcome. Thanks to all for letting me bend your ear.
Oh, and I weighed the calf again this morning. Last evening weighed 41 pounds, this morning weighed 47. Any opinions on that? Roughly 17 hours between weighing's

 

[Ouachita]

This may sound unconventional, but I modified a home made wooden goat milking stand to have 2 boards aiming off the front. Then took some bungee straps and a bath towel for a makeshift swing/sling. Kinduv like one of those bouncy chairs you hang from a door jamb for a human baby to jump up and down.
Placed the calf in it, and it had a ball. Been using it 15-20 minutes at a time all day, and now calf is following momma. Still not like she should be, but much improved. Daughter took pictures of the contraption, and I will try to post after she gets back home from 4-H meeting.
Thank God for David Allan Coe and his "I never minded standin in the rain............" song :cowboy:

 

[alisonb]

Oh, and I weighed the calf again this morning. Last evening weighed 41 pounds, this morning weighed 47. Any opinions on that? Roughly 17 hours between weighing's

Probably all the food you been giving it :shock: , jokes aside, if it was a premature calf once born they usually put on weight quickly. It sounds like it has a damaged nerve to me - waiting for your pics. Good luck.

 

[Ouachita]

First 2 pics are yesterday, last 2 are this morning. See how her back end leans to the right. She can get around, but still walks in counter-clockwise circles. I really think this is a wiring issue (nerve). She gets another shot this AM. As for the feeding comment, this calf has only had a total of two and a half quarts, and the last was Friday afternoon. Everything else has been nursed from momma. This morning was the first time calf has had the stamina/persistance to keep punching the udder, and I know she is getting plenty now. Time will tell

 

[Ouachita]

I have another question(s), but first let me say I'm not trying to diagnose and treat this calf via internet forum. I'm only trying to gain knowledge and as many opinions/possibilities of what the problem with this calf is. I will be calling the vet in the morning to ask these same questions, and promise not tell him "well, the folks on the CT boards said.........." :lol2: And for those of you who don't know, I am relatively new to raising my own cattle. I am a for profit operation, but also take very good care of my animals, even if sometimes means I lose on one.

I've been doing some reading about selenium deficiency AND selenium overdose.

Copy/Paste from another website: "INDICATIONS BO-SE (selenium, vitamin E) is recommended for the prevention and treatment of white muscle disease (Selenium-Tocopherol Deficiency) syndrome in calves, lambs, and ewes. Clinical signs are: Stiffness and lameness, diarrhea and unthriftiness, pulmonary distress and/or cardiac arrest"

OK, the only clinical sign above that this calf has exhibited would be "lameness", specifically the hind legs, moreso the right hind leg. So, my question is: If this calf has nerve/spinal injury, will the selenium help, and more importantly, can it hurt???

From same website copy/paste: "WARNINGS Anaphylactoid reactions, some of which have been fatal, have been reported in animals administered BO-SE Injection. Signs include excitement, sweating, trembling, ataxia, respiratory distress and cardiac dysfunction."

This calf is now panting just a bit. Started this late morning after I gave the second injection at about 9am. The calf has nursed at least twice since 7am this morning, and for the longest duration(s) to date. Last of 3 injections scheduled for Tuesday morning. So, now I'm curious if I'm helping or harming the situation, or if it makes no difference if I give the injection on Tuesday?? Any takers??

Calf doesn't pant when standing, just while laying. It's 93 degrees and humid, but calf is in shade with nice breeze. When I rub my hand down her back/spine she grunts when I get on the area just above the pointy hip bones/just forward of the tailhead. Seems like a discomfort for her more than pain. Maybe she's grunting because I'm stimulating something?

Also, calf does not have loose stool at all, in fact maybe a bit too solid for a calf. Pee and poop are both kind of brightish yellow. I thought maybe this could be the B complex.

 

[agmantoo]

Some animals seem to have no willingness to survive while other seem intent on living. I believe your calve is the latter. Give the calf a few more days and I believe you can turn the calf and cow out to pasture. Notice the calf's gut in your pics. The gut is full giving evidence that the calf is getting adequate milk.

 

[Nite Hawk]

Is it possible that the calf laid in a weird position inside the cow, and / or had its back or hips were knocked out of joint during the birth, beside having a possible lack of selenium?
I have seen human babies born with "creaked" necks because they laid in a wierd position inside momma before they were born, and it was known they were laying in a wierd position before birth. (they ended up fine though)
If the calf can move around much I would put her and momma cow in a small pasture by themselves and see what happens. Wouldn't leave her there over night though, dogs might chew her up.
If she can move around a bit it might help her.
Had a couple of bow legged calves years ago.When they were kicked out of the barn to just run and "be calves" , over a couple of weeks their legs straightened right up. They needed the sunshine and exercise. Not saying it would help this calf, but it might.
Nite Hawk

 

[Ouachita]

Calf is definately is bright eyed, alert, and has the desire. Just an equipment problem. Calf is in an area that gets good morning sun, shade rest of day. Next to pasture, so when momma walks off, calf will try to follow. It's real close to house, so we check often. Thanks for the replies

 

[alisonb]

If it is nerve damage I would give it an anti inflam + a cortisone injection. Let it be quiet to allow healing. Hope it's up and about soon...

 

[Ouachita]

If it is nerve damage I would give it an anti inflam + a cortisone injection. Let it be quiet to allow healing. Hope it's up and about soon...

Well I am still waiting a call back from vet. I have lower back problems and occasionally have to take steriods for inflamation. Makes sense. Thanks ali :tiphat:

 

[MO_cows]

Loved the sling, very creative and seems like it would be good "physical therapy" for the calf.

The bright yellow poop you mentioned was probably from the colostrum. (The first time I saw a calf poop in "flourescent yellow", I called my vet. He patiently explained that colostrum has a laxative effect and also can color the manure. He said it was likely a sign of getting plenty of colostrum and good quality colostrum. Then he hung up the phone and him and the vet tech probably had a good belly laugh at my expense.)

 

[Ouachita]

The calf weighed 53 pounds last evening. Still bright eyed and bushy tailed and loving life. Condition is not improving as fast as I would like it to . Peace, be still . Calf can get up on her own, but still wobbly and arse end leans to the right. She still can't walk a straight line (I can't either). She can use her back legs to "hop". Something ain't connected right, but she seems to be learning how to deal with her problem. She gets exhausted trying to follow momma and plops down. Vet said to keep doing what we're doing. He likes the bouncy sling idea, and said to give her a few more days.........
Compassion vs. profit is a bytch. Thinking about my options..........

On the brighter side, had more calves. 9 total so far, and 8 are heifers doing fine except for this one