BVD and IBR

[regolith]

Lucky: I was talking about BVD with my vet yesterday and he reminded me of the potential outcome of testing for and removing PIs - creating a naive herd susceptible to reinfection.

Where do you think we're going with this disease - monitoring and reducing new infections is being highly promoted by vets, wholescale uptake of vaccination is not - is there an aim of world-wide eradication, or a move to have every herd vaccinated?

In my herd, I suspect there *may* be some impact of BVD on reproduction but my in-calf rates tend to be better than average and there are no obvious BVD-linked symptoms presenting - the bulk milk tests show high antibody levels and when I blood-tested a few cows we found 2 PIs out of the eight tested. So it's in the herd, just not causing any obvious economic loss.
Is BVD more widespread now than it was thirty years ago?

 

[Chuckie]

Lucky P,
Thank you for clearing up the egg count before and after worming. I will let a few more weeks go by before I run that fecal test since they said he was clean. I want him to have a few more worms before I take a fecal sample back.

I have probios ready to add to his feed when I start the treatment, and the feed has Monensin. It is Co-op 13% Beef Builder.

I will see if my son-in-law might let me move him to his pasture for an address change after he breeds my last cow. I purposely kept him away from her pending his tests.

This week I am going to be able to start my coccidiosis treatment. I will be here to feed everyday, and I know that it has been done correctly. I want to know that each animal received their medication, and no days will be skipped. The amount it took to treat was expensive, and no one looks poor or sick, so I knew that a week would be OK.
You know the old saying, "If you want it done right, do it yourself!"

wbvs58
I really appreciate your support in all of this!!!!!!!!
Chuckie

 

[Chuckie]

I did find the notch on the bull's ear. What I always thought was a slight tear from someone making a mistake when trying to tag him, was a notch in his ear. It looked like the "V" that is placed in the registered pigs ears I saw, when I was a kid. Now I know the rest of the story.
Chuckie

 

[vclavin]

I did find the notch on the bull's ear. What I always thought was a slight tear from someone making a mistake when trying to tag him, was a notch in his ear. It looked like the "V" that is placed in the registered pigs ears I saw, when I was a kid. Now I know the rest of the story.
Chuckie

Can you get the test results from the previous owner? There should be a paper he/she received from the lab
Valerie

 

[Chuckie]

I took a sample of my bull's manure to get an egg count. I asked for the vet that has great communication skills at the vet's office. We went through everything, and one of the signs that showed up with the bulls symptoms was salmonella.
I took a very large amount of feces for sampling, so he is going to send that in for testing.

He said that he did not have the grid slide for counting eggs. He was the same vet that checked the first manure sample that made the remark about how worm free he was. He remembered the slide from the first check.

He did make a slide of the manure this time and looked at under the microscope. He asked me if I just wormed him again. I told him no, that the last time I wormed him was before I brought in the first sample. He said the bull was very clean and he was seeing very very few worms eggs. He said that the bull did not need worming at all.

He asked me how I was keeping him so clean of worms. I told him that I was rotating the pastures, keeping clean water, mineral with IGR, and then feeding the Monensin feed. He said that what ever I was doing was really working.

I am going to get him in the chute and pull blood for the Johne's test. The vet said I could do a nasal swab for the BVD test. I have not heard anyone else talk about his. Has anyone tested cattle this way? He said that it consisted of running a long Q tip up his nose and swabbing it really well and bagging it, and bring it in.
I had rather do that than to cut part of his ear off.

Today is the first time I have driven a vehicle in four years. I felt like I had wings. I got the OK from the Doc to drive, and the first place I went to was the vet's office. Now I don't have to wait, and wait, to get things done. I can take care of the cows like I need to. :banana:

Chuckie

 

[dun]

I don;t know about older animals but salmonella will sure cause scours in calves.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Nasal swab - ??? - double check that the vet is checking for BVD - PI ---- not BVD TITER.
BVD titer will tell you if he has been exposed to BVD in the past or has been VACCINATED!!!! This is NOT what you are needing to know.
Blood & earnotch is the only way I know of BVD-PI testing, but there could be something new.

 

[Chuckie]

If this bull has a disease, it has not affected any other cow or calf that I can see. If it is Johne's, I realize that it can take up to three years to show up.
So far, no scours in the calves. All of them are 7 months and above now.

Jeanne, I have never heard of the swab deal either until he suggested it. I just did a search and found this. It tells that the nasal swab is as effective as an ear notch test. I had much rather do this than cut a piece off of his ear. Or any other cow. I would truly hate to cut the ears of some of the cows with pretty faces and ears. I guess it is just a girl thing!!!

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/noi/110511.htm

Chuckie

 

[milkmaid]

Lucky: I was talking about BVD with my vet yesterday and he reminded me of the potential outcome of testing for and removing PIs - creating a naive herd susceptible to reinfection.

Where do you think we're going with this disease - monitoring and reducing new infections is being highly promoted by vets, wholescale uptake of vaccination is not - is there an aim of world-wide eradication, or a move to have every herd vaccinated?

In my herd, I suspect there *may* be some impact of BVD on reproduction but my in-calf rates tend to be better than average and there are no obvious BVD-linked symptoms presenting - the bulk milk tests show high antibody levels and when I blood-tested a few cows we found 2 PIs out of the eight tested. So it's in the herd, just not causing any obvious economic loss.
Is BVD more widespread now than it was thirty years ago?

Not Lucky, but... yes I'm told it's more widespread than 30 years ago. In the classroom, the vets say that vaccination was almost the worst thing that could have happened; BVD mutates easily and so instead of a few basic strains of the virus, we now have hundreds of different strains as the virus tries to find ways to infect animals that have been vaccinated. But, what else can a producer do? so we vaccinate and try to find vaccines that cover as many of the common, different strains as possible.

The best thing to do with BVD is to tackle it from multiple directions at once - vaccinate, but test and remove all PIs, and practice biosecurity procedures so you don't bring it in from a neighbor's farm.

Back to the bull... I agree with Lucky that it doesn't sound like a BVD animal. Coccidiosis, worms, Johnes, intestinal damage as a calf (scours can cause some lifelong problems... was the bull's manure normal when you bought him?), rumen damage (say due to acidosis/grain overload), etc, etc... I'd be looking at a few more possibilities. That said, if you have a few more tests run and he's not a BVD-PI animal, he's not wormy, doesn't have Johnes or coccidiosis, holds weight and looks fine otherwise, I'd be inclined to keep him and not worry about what his manure looks like. JMO.

 

[Lucky_P]

"intestinal damage as a calf (scours can cause some lifelong problems)..."

Milkmaid,
Good to see you back!
I see this claim(above) put forward from time to time - even saw it repeated by one of my 'heroes' on the small ruminant practitioners list in the last couple of weeks (she's about my age, and I regard her as one of the very best sheep/goat practitioners in the country).

But, after 35 years of looking at gross tissues(including 5 years in private mixed practice) and 20+ years of looking at 'em microscopically... it's a claim that I can't substantiate.
I don't see any 'scarring' or irreparable damage from bacterial(E.coli, Salmonella, etc.), viral, or protozoal enteropathy/enteritis in animals that have had previous bouts of those conditions, survived, and recovered. Intestinal/colonic tissues rapidly regenerates to return to a grossly and microscopically normal character - and I presume, normal functionality.
I just don't buy it as an irrefutable truth, and if someone is teaching that in the vet schools these days, I'd be interested in seeing the proof they're offering...or an admittance that it's anecdotal.

 

[milkmaid]

Lucky- I'm not certain I've actually heard the folks in microscopy say that... just heard vets say that and personally seen calves that I'd treated for severe scours run just a little looser than their contemporaries for months afterwards. Interned in a mixed animal practice, saw a 3 y/o dog come through with rather chronic diarrhea that'd had a severe case of parvo as a pup. The vet just shrugged and said sometimes damage results, let's try X dog food and see if that'll help. So I don't know if microscopically it can be proven, only that I've heard it repeated quite a few times and looking at the animals themselves I'd agree with the statement. But, if it's definitely not true... I'd like to know that too so I don't repeat it anymore. ;-) Correlation does not necessarily equal causation.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

"So far, no scours in the calves. All of them are 7 months and above now. "
Chucky - there are absolutely no signs until they are around 2 years of age. Can't even be tested until they are 2 yrs old. "IF" it turns out to be Johnes (and as mentioned, it can be tons of other problems less threatening) - "spread" of the disease may be very limited in an open beef environment. Newborns get it from sucking dirty udders "mostly".
Sure --- now they come out with nasal swab - AFTER I get my own ear notcher :bang:
The ear notch is not that distracting from their beauty

 

[vclavin]

"So far, no scours in the calves. All of them are 7 months and above now. "
Chucky - there are absolutely no signs until they are around 2 years of age. Can't even be tested until they are 2 yrs old. "IF" it turns out to be Johnes (and as mentioned, it can be tons of other problems less threatening) - "spread" of the disease may be very limited in an open beef environment. Newborns get it from sucking dirty udders "mostly".
Sure --- now they come out with nasal swab - AFTER I get my own ear notcher :bang:
The ear notch is not that distracting from their beauty

1/4 inch is allthat is required for the test... a really small piece.
Valerie

 

[vclavin]

While doing chores this morning , I remember the beefspecialist telling me about a rancher that sold 20+ bred Spring heifers a few years ago. All was fine till the new owners started calling him, seems ALL the heifers aborted . Fetuses were tested positive for BVD as were the heifers. Poor guy refunded all their money and had the heifers destroyed.. He vaccinates now!
Valerie

 

[regolith]

thanks for the answer milkmaid.
I didn't know there were drawbacks to the vaccination aside from the expense - every year, every animal is very, very expensive.

 

[Chuckie]

At this point, I wanted to add, that up to the point that the BVD test was taken the first time, he had received 6 vaccines of BVD. I did find out that he had four before I purchased him.
Chuckie