Buying

[bizybeehill]

Where is the best place to buy you first cattle? I just came from an auction and I must say I feel lost :shock: . Some looked good, some pitiful. I am trying to start a new herd and have very little experience. Any suggestions ?????

 

[dun]

If you're looking at registered stuff find a breeder near you, several would be better. Look around their cows and see what you think. Compare their forage and managment to what you'll be doing.
For commercial, I would still find a succesfull commercial breeder, several would be better, and talk to them.
If you're going to AI not do natural service, it wouldnt hurt to start with GOOD QUALITY registerd stuff and breed from there. That way you have a pretty much fixed animal to work with and you can crossbreed or straighbreed whichever is your fancy.
In MO they have the Show-me-select heifer sales a couple of times a year in different places. O believe they have a spring sale for fall calving heifers and I know they have a fall sale for spring calving heifers.
These heifers are bred to calving ease bulls and go through a pretty thorogh selection process.

dun

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

I would get to know my neighbors. It seems to me that the best cows I have are the ones that were raised on the same type of land and under similar management as what I have. Most guys who are established will have some middle aged bred cows or cow calf pairs that they might be ready to part with at a reasonable price and you can be sure that if they've made it through the yearly cull to that point that there must be some good in them.

 

[Rustler9]

I agree-I would rather buy private treaty from a reputable breeder than risk it at an auction. If you are looking into registered stock you may do ok at a breed auction, but I would highly recommend visiting some breeders near you and checking out their stock first. I like to see the other animals in a herd, also you may get to see offspring, parents etc. of the animals that are offered for sale.

 

[Gale Seddon]

Barry, if you contact Steve Hopkins (Orange County Extension Agent) at 540-672-1361, he can give you info on some upcoming events that might interest you: The Central Virginia Cattlemen Association Special Cull Cow/Bull Sale on Tuesday, January 18, and the CVCA Feeder Calf Sale on Tuesday, February 1. If nothing else, you might make a few contacts at these events to help you get started. There's also the Virginia Cattlemen's Association (http://www.vacattlemen.org).

Gale in Mineral, VA

 

[bizybeehill]

Gale, I have been looking for a local cattle organization and not had much luck I live in Loudoun County do you know if there is a northern group like the Central Virginia Cattle Association or is that the closest to me. I tried my extention agent but he is out of his office for the next couple of weeks.

 

[Medic24]

If I were a new buyer of cattle, I would definately take the advice of purchasing livestock from a local reputable breeder vs. auction, the reason being this..........

Livestock that are sent to the auction fit into several catagories, including, but not limited to, herd reduction, finished cattle, traders, and culls. Culls are what will get an inexperienced buyer into trouble, you are simply buying some one else's rejected problems. Most experienced buyers can recognize culls as they come in (most of the time anyway) novices can't.

Sooo, the cow or calf that you just bid on and got a great deal on, may not be such a great deal after all, and sometimes you wont figure it out untill alot of money is spent and you heart is broken.

Stick with a producer you can go back to with questions or concerns!

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

If I were a new buyer of cattle, I would definately take the advice of purchasing livestock from a local reputable breeder vs. auction, the reason being this..........

Livestock that are sent to the auction fit into several catagories, including, but not limited to, herd reduction, finished cattle, traders, and culls. Culls are what will get an inexperienced buyer into trouble, you are simply buying some one else's rejected problems. Most experienced buyers can recognize culls as they come in (most of the time anyway) novices can't.

Sooo, the cow or calf that you just bid on and got a great deal on, may not be such a great deal after all, and sometimes you wont figure it out untill alot of money is spent and you heart is broken.

Stick with a producer you can go back to with questions or concerns!

I couldn't have said it better myself! There is no free lunch...you get what you pay for...caveat emptor!

 

[Medic24]

A big Amen Brother Bill

 

[Dave]

One of the things not pointed out here is that almost any cattle bought private treaty will cost more than they would at the auction. Some times significantly more. If someone were to come to my place to buy a cow I know I would want more than I can get at the auction. Just as there are culls and sick cattle at the auction there are people out in the country who will sell culls and sick cattle direct to people who don't know the difference. And I know of people who have a "good reputation" that have taken advantage of others.
I really believe you can learn more about selecting cattle by sitting (on your hands) in an auction and observing the buyers and the cattle. Which buyers buy what and for how much. Why is that steer selling so cheap? Figure out what is wrong with him or at least what you think is wrong. Figure out who the bigger buyers are and sit beside them. Ask an occasional question. If you don't make yourself a pest they will help you.
People give auctions a bad rap, but unless you get into a bidding war with another person who doesn't know what they are buying, you will only pay one bid more than something is worth. The same can't be said about private treaty.
Dave

 

[Gale Seddon]

Hey guys, I agree with your advice about not buying someone's culls...was simply suggesting that going to these sales in this area would be a way of meeting people, and seeing "the good, the bad, and the ugly"...you can learn a whole lot just by getting out there, observing, and talking to people!

Barry, why don't you give the CVCA people a call and ask if there's another organization in or near Loudon County; I honestly do not know.

If you are interested in Angus, check out the VA Angus Association (http://www.vaangus.org); they have a list of Angus breeders' websites, including quite a number not far from you. I imagine that other breed organizations have a list of breeders in northern VA too; try a web search?

 

[Craig-TX]

One of the things not pointed out here is that almost any cattle bought private treaty will cost more than they would at the auction. Some times significantly more. If someone were to come to my place to buy a cow I know I would want more than I can get at the auction. Just as there are culls and sick cattle at the auction there are people out in the country who will sell culls and sick cattle direct to people who don't know the difference. And I know of people who have a "good reputation" that have taken advantage of others.
I really believe you can learn more about selecting cattle by sitting (on your hands) in an auction and observing the buyers and the cattle. Which buyers buy what and for how much. Why is that steer selling so cheap? Figure out what is wrong with him or at least what you think is wrong. Figure out who the bigger buyers are and sit beside them. Ask an occasional question. If you don't make yourself a pest they will help you.
People give auctions a bad rap, but unless you get into a bidding war with another person who doesn't know what they are buying, you will only pay one bid more than something is worth. The same can't be said about private treaty.

I can't find anything in this quote to argue with. If you're wanting registered stock then by all means go to the breeders and special sales. If you're simply wanting to run some cows and have a calf crop the sale barn is a perfectly legitimate place to get them. Like many have said, buyer beware. But like many others have said, get somebody with cattle savvy to go with you.

Craig-TX

 

[Angus]

Dave,

has best answered your question

So the best way to buy Cattle is to know what your looking at
and for
Study the cattle closely before sale time until you can scan
them quickly

best wishes on your venture

Shane

 

[eric]

Some times significantly more. If someone were to come to my place to buy a cow I know I would want more than I can get at the auction. /quote]

Why is that? Not knocking your philosophy, as most sellers also feel that way, but why would you take a cow to the auction, get $1000 for it less the selling fees, but if someone stops by your place and wants to buy the same cow, you would ask $1200 for it? Not sure why the premium is asked, especially if the buyer is willing to pick up the animal, thus saving you a trip to the sale barn. I am getting ready to buy some replacement cows/pairs and I am pretty sure I am gonna buy them at the sale barn this time. I have been hanging around there the past few Saturdays, and the prices just seem to good to pass up, compared to the prices I've seen in the newspaper lately. There is almost always some guy who is getting out of the business and has some nice looking cows up there, and of course there are always some pitiful looking cows also, but after a few sales and watching and talking to a few guys, you can get a good idea of what to stay away from and what to bid on. Actually, I get alot of information from just hanging around the gate where the sellers unload their animals and talk to the owners of the cows, and then hanging around the guy who preg checks them and tests them. I am sure I am becoming a pain in the rear to these guys, but they haven't ran me off yet! I try and stay out of their way when they're working the animals, but most are friendly enough and don't mind helping out beginners when possible.
Just walk around the catwalks and talk to a few guys, most are more than willing to help you out.

 

[denoginnizer]

I sometimes find a experienced cattle buyer to buy my cows for me. The fee in these parts runs about 15-25 dollars per head. I tell them what I want and what I am willing to pay and they get it for me.

 

[greenwillowherefords]

IMHO, even if you find good cattle at the sale, they have still been exposed to whatever sickness etc. that other cattle at the sale may have. Plus, they have to be hauled twice, once to the sale and once to your place.

 

[TLCfromARK]

One of the things not pointed out here is that almost any cattle bought private treaty will cost more than they would at the auction. Some times significantly more. If someone were to come to my place to buy a cow I know I would want more than I can get at the auction. Just as there are culls and sick cattle at the auction there are people out in the country who will sell culls and sick cattle direct to people who don't know the difference. And I know of people who have a "good reputation" that have taken advantage of others.
I really believe you can learn more about selecting cattle by sitting (on your hands) in an auction and observing the buyers and the cattle. Which buyers buy what and for how much. Why is that steer selling so cheap? Figure out what is wrong with him or at least what you think is wrong. Figure out who the bigger buyers are and sit beside them. Ask an occasional question. If you don't make yourself a pest they will help you.
People give auctions a bad rap, but unless you get into a bidding war with another person who doesn't know what they are buying, you will only pay one bid more than something is worth. The same can't be said about private treaty.
Dave

I agree with most of Dave's post but I've got to go with Eric on why a honest seller would want significantly more for the same quailty animal in the field than at the sale barn. I know that if my brother & I are selling to someone we factor in how much fuel it would cost to haul them and the barn fees and adjust the price.

One time a man heard we were selling a few heifers, he came by looked at them & liked them. We quoted him a price, he hemmed & hawwed around and passed. The same man followed us to the sale barn and bought 3 of the heifers, he paid an avg. of $20 per head more and we got ( after fees ) $20 head less than what we offered the heifers to him in the field. And that didn't include the cost of hauling ( time / fuel ) the heifers to and from the sale.

;-)

 

[Medic24]

Ok, granted private sales are likely to be more expensive up front... but simply put, isn't the trade off worth it?

Figure you pull into a breeder's farm, and look at his cattle, these cattle are usually the ones he has a mind to keep, and breed and grow out, meaning that they are also just as likely to be well fed, vacinated, wormed etc. These are the things that you cannot rely on from an auction, as we have always assumed that the cattle we buy from the auctions are NOT vacinated, wormed etc, and have to go the expense and effort of doing so, and keeping them away from the established herd longer.....just not so with a local honest breeder or farmer.

So it is a wash in the end anyway, if you try to figure any savings from the auction vs. private sale. Again you can always go back to the private sale person with questions or concerns regarding your purchase....NOT so with the auction house.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

Ok, granted private sales are likely to be more expensive up front... but simply put, isn't the trade off worth it?

Figure you pull into a breeder's farm, and look at his cattle, these cattle are usually the ones he has a mind to keep, and breed and grow out, meaning that they are also just as likely to be well fed, vacinated, wormed etc. These are the things that you cannot rely on from an auction, as we have always assumed that the cattle we buy from the auctions are NOT vacinated, wormed etc, and have to go the expense and effort of doing so, and keeping them away from the established herd longer.....just not so with a local honest breeder or farmer.

So it is a wash in the end anyway, if you try to figure any savings from the auction vs. private sale. Again you can always go back to the private sale person with questions or concerns regarding your purchase....NOT so with the auction house.

Agree! Also, when a prospective buyer comes to our place he/she has opportunity to see how we run our facility, manage our cattle, see how they behave "in the pasture" as well as up close, and in many cases see the sire and dam of the offspring. Can't do that at a sale barn! We also emphasize the quality of our cattle (current vaccinations, de-worming, no hormones or other "additives", etc.). We are also available to answer any questions the prospect may have (no "car salesman" hassles), as well as inspect the animal's health records and 6 generation pedigree.

Yes, we charge more via private treaty sales: they are quality cattle. And, ONLY if one of ours (calves) does not complement our program genetics and conformation for breeding stock and it is not sold to a commercial cattle person for cross-breeding would we take it to a sale barn. Like to sell ours "per each" not "per pound" (and take a hit at a sale barn since they are "Longhorns").

 

[Dave]

There are two reasons for saying that I would charge more at home then an animal is worth at the sale. The first is that I would stand behind any sale off the farm. This is a responcability that I don't take if the animal goes to the sale. Secondly I want to make sure I don't short change myself. Say I have a 500 pound steer and the top of the market is a dollar a pound at the last sale I went to or have a report from. Well what if the market goes up this week and the steer was worth $1.05? I don't have a scale either so I am guessing the steers weight. What if this steer weighs 550 instead of 500. Animals sold off the farm are generally sold by the head so I always allow some extra room for error in the value. I am not trying to rip off the buyer, I am just making sure I don't short change myself. If they don't like my price they can always go to the sale. Heck, if they think they will do better on them buying them at teh sale I will tell them when I am taking the cows to the sale, get the back tag numbers to them or anything else to get another person to bid on my cattle.
The reason I generally stay away from private treaty is a lot of people are mighty proud of their cattle. Some with good reason. But most of the time I can buy cattle that are just as good for a lot less money at the sale.
Dave