Bull/Cow Pedigrees

[Stepper]

You know i have been looking over pedigrees on different bulls/cows and i was comparing accuracy numbers on the animals registration pappers.

I noticed that on most registration papers that had owners/breeders who had some type of title that went along with their names(example, White Oak Valley Ranch or B & B Farms etc......, ) other words, big operations. Usually had higher accuracy numbers on the registration papers of the bull or cow in question. And the owners/breeders who like myself had nothing but their names on the registration papers had low accuracy numbers on the animals registration papers.

I am pretty sure the reason for this is because alot of people like myself who are small time operators and most dont run registered cattle. So we dont send in the information required to keep the data needed to determine weather or not a bull/cow has the gentics ( BW , CED, etc.....,) that we are look for in a bull/cow.

But these bigger producers do because cattle is their lively hood and they keep better records. They want to strive to produce a better product. So they are always wanting to improve their cattle.

While i was looking over all of ancestors in my bulls pedigree. About half of them had low accuracy numbers. The other half had high accuracy numbers. So how can it be determined that a animal bull/cow has proven gentics knowing that half of the information needed to determine them has never been recorded ?

And another thing how can they come up with EPD numbers for a yearling bull/cow. When half of its ancestory was never documented. But yet for instances my bull has a BW +.7 with a accuracy number of .36 ? I am the only one who has ever had any calfs from that bull and have not sent any information in to the angus association on that bulls performance. So how do they come up with the .36 accuracy ? Or the BW +.7 ?

And the idea of haveing this knowledge is to be able to look at it and select a good breeding prospect for your cattle operation. If i keep this bull and have enough calfs out of him then i will know weather or not if he has big, small calfs etc...., Wether the cows has them easy or has trouble.

But that is in my opinion defeating the purpose of paying bigger bucks for a bull that you are suppose to have some sort of idea as to what to expect from him.

I think that unless you buy a bull with high accuracy numbers for the gentics that you are tring to acheive. You are defeating your purpose of buying a registered bull. And the only way to do that i can see. Is to buy one that has already sired alot of off spring and his off spring been weighed and reported to the breeds association.

 

[Frankie]

You know i have been looking over pedigrees on different bulls/cows and i was comparing accuracy numbers on the animals registration pappers.

I noticed that on most registration papers that had owners/breeders who had some type of title that went along with their names(example, White Oak Valley Ranch or B & B Farms etc......, ) other words, big operations. Usually had higher accuracy numbers on the registration papers of the bull or cow in question. And the owners/breeders who like myself had nothing but their names on the registration papers had low accuracy numbers on the animals registration papers.

I am pretty sure the reason for this is because alot of people like myself who are small time operators and most dont run registered cattle. So we dont send in the information required to keep the data needed to determine weather or not a bull/cow has the gentics ( BW , CED, etc.....,) that we are look for in a bull/cow.

But these bigger producers do because cattle is their lively hood and they keep better records. They want to strive to produce a better product. So they are always wanting to improve their cattle.

While i was looking over all of ancestors in my bulls pedigree. About half of them had low accuracy numbers. The other half had high accuracy numbers. So how can it be determined that a animal bull/cow has proven gentics knowing that half of the information needed to determine them has never been recorded ?

And another thing how can they come up with EPD numbers for a yearling bull/cow. When half of its ancestory was never documented. But yet for instances my bull has a BW +.7 with a accuracy number of .36 ? I am the only one who has ever had any calfs from that bull and have not sent any information in to the angus association on that bulls performance. So how do they come up with the .36 accuracy ? Or the BW +.7 ?

And the idea of haveing this knowledge is to be able to look at it and select a good breeding prospect for your cattle operation. If i keep this bull and have enough calfs out of him then i will know weather or not if he has big, small calfs etc...., Wether the cows has them easy or has trouble.

But that is in my opinion defeating the purpose of paying bigger bucks for a bull that you are suppose to have some sort of idea as to what to expect from him.

I think that unless you buy a bull with high accuracy numbers for the gentics that you are tring to acheive. You are defeating your purpose of buying a registered bull. And the only way to do that i can see. Is to buy one that has already sired alot of off spring and his off spring been weighed and reported to the breeds association.

I think you're missing the intent of EPDs. They were never set up to tell you what a calf will weigh. They are set up to allow you to compare breeding animals (let's say bulls). You would Expect a bull with a WW EPD of 40 to sire calves that weigh 40 lbs more at weaning than if you bred those same cows, same management, to a bull with a WW EPD of 0. Accuracies are important, but you're not likely to have the opportunity to buy a bull with .90 accuracies. When we use younger bulls to AI, the calves will usually have .05 accuracies. But as the AI bull's accuracies go up as more people use him, our bull's EPD accuracy will go up, too. As more information is reported on sibliings, half sibs, dam, sire, cousins, uncles, aunts, of your bull, it will affect his EPD and the accuracy.

Extension specialists, breed associations, most everyone agrees that EPDs are the best method of evaluating a bull's breeding merit.

 

[jnowack]

A lot of small breeders keep great records. What gives the big breeders the advantage in generating accuraccies is the number of progeny that they get out of their bulls. They are able to get much larger contemporary groups with more different sires represented. It is a much better comparison than a small group. I try to get some AI sired calves by proven bulls in my contemporary groups so that my herd bulls progeny can be evaluated more objectively and the EPD's have more meaning.
The idea about buying proven bulls with lots of progeny is a good idea but a bull that has the EPD's and the high accuraccies that you want will probably either be fairly old or be an AI sire, or both. If he is that good he may be very expensive. The most cost effective way to utilize proven sires is by AI'ing your cows.

 

[bigbull338]

to keep a bull or cows epds current you have to report alot of stuff to assoc.like the calves bw an ww.as well as the number of calves the bull sired for the year.an the bulls numbers go up an down.based on the number of prodgy reported every year.