Bull Breeding ?

[Black and Good]

If you have a Balancer bull that was arrived at from both Sire and Dam being 50% GV and 50% AN balancers. Is there any advantage over that as compared to one arrived at with Sire pure AN and Dam pure GV or visa/versa. Is there a perferred way? I'm sure this has been disscused before. I was wondering if the first example would be more likely to be Homo black or Homo Polled for instance.

 

[dun]

When you rebreed F1s to produce F2's there is a deal called breed regression. I've seen it explained and I still haven;t figured it out. But in theory an F2 has less heterosis then an F1.

 

[3waycross]

I know of a fella here in Colo who does that regularily and swears that it creates a more stable offspring. He actually has been creating a 3 or4 waycross composite using that program and while they are not real purty to look at they throw very nice calves and the calves are very consistant. BTW i believe the components of the composite are GV,Sim,Herf and Angus

The real test will be what he throws. If they are all over the place as SOME would have us believe then i guess it's a bad plan..........i doubt they will be!

 

[double v]

in the short balancer to balancer is fine, but i would then go pure gelbvieh or angus to push my vigor back up. once i have that i would go back balancer, just my thoughts

 

[Black and Good]

So, please explain which way is F1, which way is F2. I'm confused. Are we saying Pure AN and Pure GV is a better way to arrive at a Balancer than two 50/50 parents??

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

F1 is the first cross in this case An.x GV. F2 is mating two F1 together. The F2 should be more stable,and consistent in type if the same type cows were used.

 

[Black and Good]

F1 is the first cross in this case An.x GV. F2 is mating two F1 together. The F2 should be more stable,and consistent in type if the same type cows were used.

RBB; So,with angus based cows a F1 balancer would work best? But,if balancer type cows a F2 balancer would work best?? I'm I correct. Thanks B&G

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Are you breeding for replacements or for market calve?The balancer limflex type crosses should be used to make crossbreeding simple. If you have a balancer cow herd using the balancer bull is the easy way to keep the crossbred cow herd where you want it. If you have angus cows and want to make balancer type cows use a GV bull. Then use the balancer on those offspring to maintian the percentages of each breed.

 

[Black and Good]

Are you breeding for replacements or for market calve?The balancer limflex type crosses should be used to make crossbreeding simple. If you have a balancer cow herd using the balancer bull is the easy way to keep the crossbred cow herd where you want it. If you have angus cows and want to make balancer type cows use a GV bull. Then use the balancer on those offspring to maintian the percentages of each breed.

RBB,Thanks for your help. The reason I was asking was I've got a young F1 Balancer bull and a guy is wanting to trade me for a F2 Balancer bull. So, I was trying to educate myself on the difference. B&G

 

[-XBAR-]

Use purebred bulls. Unless the gelbvieh and Angus were the same type, meaning phenotype, you will have considerable diversity in the calf crop. Traditional gelbvieh and traditional Angus should not be similar in appearance.

 

[bhooper]

The F2 should sire more consistent calves vs the F1. The F1's advantage would be in it's individual heterosis and just like an F1 cow it should have better fertility and longevity.

 

[3waycross]

Use purebred bulls. Unless the gelbvieh and Angus were the same type, meaning phenotype, you will have considerable diversity in the calf crop. Traditional gelbvieh and traditional Angus should not be similar in appearance.

Traditional Balancers on the other hand tend to be of similar phenatype and F2's even more similar as RBB stated.

The conventional wisdom says if you want real consistant F2's then breed a AN/GV to a GV/AN. At least that's what my buddies dad based his program on and it seems to work for him

OF COURSE there's a little thing called selection that comes into play at some point!!!

 

[-XBAR-]

Absolutely, selection is key.

You say, " Traditional Balancers on the other hand tend to be of similar phenatype."

My question: similar to what?

I've got a buddy who's white and married to a native American woman. They have two kids. One kid looks like john smith the other like squanto. True story.

 

[Taurus]

Absolutely, selection is key.

You say, " Traditional Balancers on the other hand tend to be of similar phenatype."

My question: similar to what?

I've got a buddy who's white and married to a native American woman. They have two kids. One kid looks like john smith the other like squanto. True story.

You have friends?

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Mercy me 3way i guess we just don't know as much as we think we know. Sure glad ole Massey is back to keep us on the straight and narrow path.

 

[3waycross]

Absolutely, selection is key.

You say, " Traditional Balancers on the other hand tend to be of similar phenatype."

My question: similar to what?[/b]

Each other!

 

[double v]

please leave balancers alone, just raise commerical cows. Its not that hard read a book... or follow the plan. been doing this a while bal x bal followed by AN or gel than back a plan for sucess. please dont read into to it. ask 3 way i don't know cattle......

 

[LRTX1]

Absolutely, selection is key.

You say, " Traditional Balancers on the other hand tend to be of similar phenatype."

My question: similar to what?

I've got a buddy who's white and married to a native American woman. They have two kids. One kid looks like john smith the other like squanto. True story.

You have friends?

Probably a neighbor or coworker.

 

[-XBAR-]

Mercy me 3way i guess we just don't know as much as we think we know. Sure glad ole Massey is back to keep us on the straight and narrow path.

Are you just looking for a fight or what bc I've read everyone of your post for the last 3 years and not once have I seen you be a proponent of using crossbred bulls...what gives?

 

[-XBAR-]

Absolutely, selection is key.

You say, " Traditional Balancers on the other hand tend to be of similar phenatype."

My question: similar to what?

I've got a buddy who's white and married to a native American woman. They have two kids. One kid looks like john smith the other like squanto. True story.

You have friends?

Probably a neighbor or coworker.

Here's a link to my fb page. http://www.facebook.com/ryan.chandler.9955

Will Yall please be my friend? Pretty please??Lololololololol