Bucket calves with no appetite

[hillside]

raising bucket calves, 4th group approx 130 at a time. every group 6% will not drink bottle. about day 3 stop wanting the bottle. they will take about 6-10 hard sucks then start chewing the nipple and pushing it out with their tongue. we have tried flavoring milk but they still turn their backs to us at feed time. we can skip a meal and they still arent hungry. we have tried every respiratory and digestive medicine, even kao pectin orally before meal, that we can think of. we have tried clostridium antitoxin c&d. Most would drink thrive but would lose appetite for even this. Nothing seems to help. could it be a vaccine we are giving and is carrying over? we tube their milk but about 10-14 days they just get weak and die. they never have a fever,dehydrated or look weak. they look healthy except have no appetite. after a few days we do hear some congestion not sure if this a secondary sickness coming on? really at a loss here would appreciate all advice. Hillside

 

[Alice]

ok, I'm gonna jump right out there and risk taking a beating...however...

Let me ask you a few questions.

Are these calves holsteins? Did you get them from the auction? Are they holstein bull calves?

If the answer to all three questions is yes, then I'd say you're doing pretty good to only lose 6%.

Alice

 

[milkmaid]

There's always a reason for a loss of appetite. The key is to find it. ;-) Sometimes it's as obvious as the nose on your face and sometimes all you can do is guess.

How many days did you say you were tubing these calves?

From the way I'm reading it, it's either "3 days of age" or "3 days after you get them" that they start showing problems, and then at either "10-14 days of age" or "10-14 days after first refusing to eat" that they die. Which one is it?

You said you've tried KaoPec. And C&D Antitoxin. Which antibiotics have you tried?

You asked if it might be a vaccination you are giving. What ARE you giving the calves?

It's said that at death, there is rarely only one invader that can be pinpointed as responsible for the death of the animal. So it is possible there's a secondary problem that appears later - after all, when an animal is sick their resistance to other pathogens is considerably diminished.

 

[Alice]

Another question...were these calves shipped in to you from a buyer from out of state? I ask this because in county I live, there are at least 5, that I know of, calf buyers who load up at every auction, and ship them out of state. It's nothing for one buyer to leave with 90% of the baby calves (mainly holsteins) that go thru the ring. And, we have 3 sales a week here.

Alice

 

[hillside]

Yes, these calves came from an auction. They stop having an appetite 3 days after we get them. We tube the calves for 10-14 days before they die. We have used all kinds of antibotics on different calves trying to find a solution. On day 3 we give Vista Five and Vision C&D. Is it possible they could be carrying over and causing our problem? Has anybody else experienced this? Hillsides Wife

 

[dun]

Are you hitting all of the calves with anitbiotics as soon as you get them or only after you notcie a problem? This is the only instance when we give antibiotics without a confirmed problem. Hit them hard with Nuflor when you unload them and again a day or 3 later. If they're stressed, the vaccines are useless. Get them healthy and up and doing first, then vaccinate.

dun

 

[milkmaid]

We have used all kinds of antibotics on different calves trying to find a solution.

Which ones? :?:

 

[Alice]

Yes, these calves came from an auction. They stop having an appetite 3 days after we get them. We tube the calves for 10-14 days before they die. We have used all kinds of antibotics on different calves trying to find a solution. On day 3 we give Vista Five and Vision C&D. Is it possible they could be carrying over and causing our problem? Has anybody else experienced this? Hillsides Wife

Again, what breed of calves are they? If they are holsteins, especially holstein bulls, and you got them from the auction, or from a cattle buyer who got them from the auction, then if you are only experiencing a 6% death rate, you are ahead of the game. Antibiotics will not cure everything, most especially a lack of colostrum. Holstein bulls bought from an auction are notorious for being gathered up and shipped to an auction almost before they hit the ground.

Something else...these auction bought holstein calves seem to actually thrive for the first week...then you start to notice loose stools, (that's when you need to hit 'em with electrolytes, don't wait until they have watery scours); then you start to notice a little rattle when they drink (that's when you hit 'em with the nuflor/banamine). Then you sit back, work your tail off trying everything you can think of, and hope to goodness that they make it to the 2 week mark. Seems after 2 weeks things seem to settle down a little after that.

Also, put some calf feed in their pens...sometimes they'll actually start playing with it in about 3 days. Always, always, always, when you give nuflor, or any antibiotic, make sure you follow it with a dose of microbials. Learned that from an ag professor at the university I worked at.

One more thing...I've found that exonel works somtimes when nuflor doesn't. I got my hands on some baytril recently and had absolutely no luck with that...in fact I got it from a man that's been in this business forever and he won't use it anymore...told me I could keep it 'cause he quit having any luck with it at all. But, a lot of people swear by it. When one antibiotic doesn't work, go to the next, and next and next. And, remember the banamine...that's some good stuff.

When we unload calves from the auction we do not feed them milk...their first bottle is electrolytes and they get shot up with Vit. AED, and get a mouthful of microbials. AND, we give them 20ccs of Spectam when we unload them, then 10ccs Spectam each time they are fed for 5 days thereafter...hence, they get a mouthful of microbials at each feeding. Cripes, I mix microbials in their milk at each feeding for the first 3 weeks they are here.

As for the tubing...I've never tubed a calf for that long...14 days. Some calves just aren't gonna live.

It's possible to raise calves that haven't had colostrum...we've done it a lot...and we've lost a lot. Baby calf raisers around here count themselves lucky if their death rate is 10% if they're trying to raise auction bought holstein baby calves.

Alice

 

[Alice]

Another thing...like I haven't already written a treatise...don't give those new calves a full bottle of milk at each feeding. We've been having real good luck mixing up a full complement of milk replacer powder in 3 pints of water rather than a full bottle of water and feeding that. Learned that from some research done in Canada. Controversial, I know, but we've really noticed a positive difference by doing this. Whatever, at least for the first two weeks, don't give them full bottles of milk.

Alice

 

[Farmhand]

Raised a few Holstein bottle calves myself. Here is the program my vet gave me.

Day 1
TSV-2 2cc in the nose
Jencine 4 2cc in the neck
Vision 7 w/H.somnus 2cc in the neck
BoSe 3cc in the neck
Pulmoguard 2cc in the neck

Day 14
Jencine 4 2cc in the neck
Vision 7 w/H.somnus 2cc in the neck

Day 21
Jencine 4 2cc in the neck

 

[msscamp]

Yes, these calves came from an auction. They stop having an appetite 3 days after we get them. We tube the calves for 10-14 days before they die. We have used all kinds of antibotics on different calves trying to find a solution. On day 3 we give Vista Five and Vision C&D. Is it possible they could be carrying over and causing our problem? Has anybody else experienced this? Hillsides Wife

Again, what breed of calves are they? If they are holsteins, especially holstein bulls, and you got them from the auction, or from a cattle buyer who got them from the auction, then if you are only experiencing a 6% death rate, you are ahead of the game. Antibiotics will not cure everything, most especially a lack of colostrum. Holstein bulls bought from an auction are notorious for being gathered up and shipped to an auction almost before they hit the ground.

Something else...these auction bought holstein calves seem to actually thrive for the first week...then you start to notice loose stools, (that's when you need to hit 'em with electrolytes, don't wait until they have watery scours); then you start to notice a little rattle when they drink (that's when you hit 'em with the nuflor/banamine). Then you sit back, work your tail off trying everything you can think of, and hope to goodness that they make it to the 2 week mark. Seems after 2 weeks things seem to settle down a little after that.

Also, put some calf feed in their pens...sometimes they'll actually start playing with it in about 3 days. Always, always, always, when you give nuflor, or any antibiotic, make sure you follow it with a dose of microbials. Learned that from an ag professor at the university I worked at.

One more thing...I've found that exonel works somtimes when nuflor doesn't. I got my hands on some baytril recently and had absolutely no luck with that...in fact I got it from a man that's been in this business forever and he won't use it anymore...told me I could keep it 'cause he quit having any luck with it at all. But, a lot of people swear by it. When one antibiotic doesn't work, go to the next, and next and next. And, remember the banamine...that's some good stuff.

When we unload calves from the auction we do not feed them milk...their first bottle is electrolytes and they get shot up with Vit. AED, and get a mouthful of microbials. AND, we give them 20ccs of Spectam when we unload them, then 10ccs Spectam each time they are fed for 5 days thereafter...hence, they get a mouthful of microbials at each feeding. Cripes, I mix microbials in their milk at each feeding for the first 3 weeks they are here.

As for the tubing...I've never tubed a calf for that long...14 days. Some calves just aren't gonna live.

It's possible to raise calves that haven't had colostrum...we've done it a lot...and we've lost a lot. Baby calf raisers around here count themselves lucky if their death rate is 10% if they're trying to raise auction bought holstein baby calves.

Alice

:shock: :shock: :shock: I knew there was a reason I've never done dairy bottle calves, just didn't know what it was until now.