BROKEN PENIS

[piedmontese]

i sold a 18 month registered piedmontese bull to a guy in march.the bull had been semen tested by a vet and was excellent.today the guy calls me and says the bull has a broken penis and he wants his $$$ back.we never discussed any kind of warranty.do u think i am responsible?

 

[oscar p]

I'd say no, your not responseable, Anything can happen in 4 months. Bought a Charolais bull from Auburn Bull Test,about 6 yrs ago. Put him in with cows,The 1st cow he mounted, POW Broke his pecker. Never got a calf out of him. You talk about a grown man almost crying.

 

[3waycross]

Why in the world would that be your fault. That's like sayng you are responsible for the bull getting hit by lightening.

Tell him that their are only two things in this world that are certain. Death and Taxes. The longevity of bull peckers is, and always will be, unknown.

He broke it, he bought it.










w

 

[SRBeef]

Sounds like something that comes under the heading of "accident". Not at all your fault nor covered by any warranty. jmho. Jim

 

[milkmaid]

Not your fault.

It's also not something that necessarily ruins a bull - I've only encountered two broke bulls and both healed with 60 days of rest, passed a BSE, and went back to work without incident.

 

[angus9259]

Not your fault.

That said, I'd probably take him back. I'd offer to exchange him for another bull first. If I didn't have another bull I'd just refund his money. But I'm seedstock and I'm in the bull business. Customers and a good reputation are hard to come by.

Just took one back as a matter of fact. Sold the bull this spring and the fella passed away. The widow called and asked if I'd be willing. I did. He's in good shape and hopefully I can resell him.

But that's just what I would do - there's certainly no obligation to do it.

 

[Aaron]

The fella should be happy he can still get some money back in salvage value. But you don't owe him a dime. That is what insurance is for. :cowboy:

 

[double v]

if you sell bulls work a deal i would discount another bull for him to keep his bussiness. this wasn't your fault with something like,that but most breeders will guarantee the first breeeding season. thats your call with selling bulls not everyone does it. just remember that s@#t happens in the field and you can't control all of it or any of it.

 

[bigag03]

6 month/one breeding season guarantee is pretty typical. As has been said, it's not your fault and you are not obligated to do anything; but if you plan to stay in the bull selling business, this is one of those things that you just have to deal with.

I would either swap bulls or give him a credit to be used in the future. I would NOT give him a refund.

 

[piedmontese]

6 month/one breeding season guarantee is pretty typical. As has been said, it's not your fault and you are not obligated to do anything; but if you plan to stay in the bull selling business, this is one of those things that you just have to deal with.

I would either swap bulls or give him a credit to be used in the future. I would NOT give him a refund.

i sold the bull for $2,000. i offered to buy it back for $1,000. he did get to use him for a breeding season so i thought that seemed fair.

 

[piedmontese]

Not your fault.

It's also not something that necessarily ruins a bull - I've only encountered two broke bulls and both healed with 60 days of rest, passed a BSE, and went back to work without incident.

so how do u heal a broken penis? is it just rest that is required? i guess he would need to be penned alone as well.

 

[TexasBred]

6 month/one breeding season guarantee is pretty typical. As has been said, it's not your fault and you are not obligated to do anything; but if you plan to stay in the bull selling business, this is one of those things that you just have to deal with.

I would either swap bulls or give him a credit to be used in the future. I would NOT give him a refund.

i sold the bull for $2,000. i offered to buy it back for $1,000. he did get to use him for a breeding season so i thought that seemed fair.

Sounds fair enough to me. You basically got $1000 for a six month lease on the bull. I'd haul him to the packer now if he is big and heavy. They could care less about the pecker problem.

 

[dun]

Not your fault.

It's also not something that necessarily ruins a bull - I've only encountered two broke bulls and both healed with 60 days of rest, passed a BSE, and went back to work without incident.

so how do u heal a broken penis? is it just rest that is required? i guess he would need to be penned alone as well.

One of the neighbors beef bulls broke his tool so he turned it when with his Milkstring that were supposedly all bred. He was sure surprised when he started getting solid black calves a year after he put the bull in with them.

 

[angus9259]

If he used the bull for a breeding season, your offer is fair - somewhat the equivalent of replacing the bull I suppose. That said, if he got through the breeding season, I would probably not do anything till next year and have the customer put him through a BSE. If he passed the BSE there isn't a problem at all.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I'd say no, your not responseable, Anything can happen in 4 months. Bought a Charolais bull from Auburn Bull Test,about 6 yrs ago. Put him in with cows,The 1st cow he mounted, POW Broke his pecker.

Hot blooded French?

 

[Barney]

What he means by "broken penis?" Acute angulation of the penis can accidentally happen during coitus due to cow going down under the weight of the bull or, I guess you could say, just bad aim. Sudden angulation can cause an increase in the blood pressure in the penis and cause a hematoma, which causes the angulation of the penis. Maybe 50-60% of these heal on their own, but he must be taken out of business for at least 90 days. The sooner he is checked by the vet, the better. He may need antibiotics for a week or so, and he would appreciate so local warm hydrotherapy. If the hematoma is more severe, he may need surgery and that needs to be done no more than 72 hrs after the injury. Did the buyer describe the "broken penis?" Was it spiral or corkscrew shaped, rainbow shaped, or with an S shape. The S shape usually occurs in older bulls, but is relatively very rare. A corkscrew or ventral rainbow shaped penis could be due to the apical ligament. Your vet can repair this with a little local lidocaine and some 2-0 Vicryl or Dexon sutures, but these are considered a congenital/genetic trait and usually occur in Angus and Shorthorn's.

Well enough about bull penis, tomorrow is gonna be another hot day, so better get some sleep.

 

[milkmaid]

60 days rest was all we used. I believe the second bull got 20cc of dexamethasone for swelling, but he was hurt really badly. Both were initially diagnosed by a vet and both passed a BSE at the vet's by 65 days and were turned back out with the cows. I'm told that scarring can be an issue by so far haven't seen it to be a problem.

 

[Lucky_P]

Barney did a good job on describing the condition.
Blood pressure inside that erect penis is tremendous - in excess of 5000psi - if they 'miss the hole' or get a kink in the process - not uncommon for inexperienced young bulls - they get a disastrous 'blow-out'.
If you don't pull the bull, every time he tries again, you're pumping more blood into that area. If some bacteria happen to hit into that big blood clot, you can end up with a big abscess.
Most run-of-the-mill bulls are not worth the $$ it would take to attempt to properly repair the injury; and the lost breeding season(s) - you're better off sending him to slaughter and buying another bull.
I'm far enough removed from my vet school days at Auburn(War Eagle, Barney) when most of our beef work was working on peckers and prepuces, that I don't recall, off the top of my head, the length of rest required before putting the bull back into service, but 60 days seems a bit short.
A percentage(fairly low) of bulls WILL heal and return to service, but the healed area is never as strong as the original undamaged tunica, and in many cases, they develop some vascular shunts that prevent them from being able to adequately maintain an erection. And, with that explosive blow-out, the dorsal nerves of the penis, which run right along the top side, are often destroyed, and even if the bull can achieve an erection, and doesn't develop adhesions which prevent him from being able to extend, he can't 'feel' to know when he's in the cow, and may not be able to ejaculate.

Your offer for $1000 - half the purchase price - is more than fair, particularly in light of the fact that he got at least one breeding season out of him. You had no responsibility, and it certainly was not a defect, just an accident - what if this bull had gotten out on the highway and got hit by a bus? Would this guy expect you to refund his money?
But if you're aspiring to have a good reputation as a seedstock producer, a goodwill gesture like this on your part should do nothing but improve your standing. The most I'd consider doing is splitting the difference between what he brings, sold for slaughter, and what the purchase price was.

 

[milkmaid]

I'm far enough removed from my vet school days at Auburn(War Eagle, Barney) when most of our beef work was working on peckers and prepuces, that I don't recall, off the top of my head, the length of rest required before putting the bull back into service, but 60 days seems a bit short.

It is on the shorter end of the spectrum - but - my vet books suggested a minimum of 60 days and so that's what we went with. Ollie - previous poster on here, still visits occasionally - had a beef bull that was injured far worse than ours, gave him a year to recover and tested before the next breeding season. In light of that, we elected to give our first bull a chance rather than ship him to slaughter. When the first bull recovered, we were more confident that the second one (3 years later?) would also be fine with rest, and so we followed the same protocol.

 

[stocky]

I have certainly learned something new. I had never heard of one with a broken tool recovering. The ones I have seen have swollen up huge and turned dark or black and usually drag the ground. Also, in the winter it seems they get frozen because of exposure and lack of blood supply. I would have thought infection would be certain or even gangrene. Maybe I shouldn't just ship automatically. On a different thought, when the slaughter bull price goes down and they are selling outstanding 2 year old "broke" bulls at the barn for 40 cents per pound, would it be worth buying a few to get some outstanding bulls for a fraction of their worth? Something to research