British Whites
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DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
oldmac-oldmac":1ufbju6j said:
Interesting! What reasons do "Darling bride" have for "British Whites" specifically? What particular breed does "Darling bride" have in mind for the "other" half of the crossbreeding formula, other than Red Angus or Hereford? . . . and . . . has "Darling bride" had any experience with crossbreeding in the past? If so - what breeds did she use?
DOC HARRIS
DOC HARRIS":2pndihi5 said:
She read an article here on cattle today about the British White, and since I have red angus and hereford bulls she was just curious about the out come and what to expect, nothing more nothing less. Maybe one or two!!
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
Well, of course, it all depends upon the Genetic and Phenotypic qualities of the breeding individuals, but assuming that the Sire and Dams are reasonably above average, your calves should be good, soggy, well balanced, "pinky" colored (if using Red Angus genetics) Terminal prospects. Hereford-colored Phenotype if those genetics are in the mix. But they should be good thick progeny whichever breed you should decide to incorporate in the cross.
That should be an interesting project, but I think that a Continental breed in the combination mix would produce a more profitable result, such as Gelbvieh.
DOC HARRIS
That should be an interesting project, but I think that a Continental breed in the combination mix would produce a more profitable result, such as Gelbvieh.
DOC HARRIS
randiliana
Well-known member
DOC HARRIS":1ygi5hsn said:
I have to disagree with Doc Harris here, while I cannot comment on what they will look like phenotypically as I have never dealt with them more than seeing photos, I can go into the color genetics of using White Park as a cross.
White Park cattle are what is called Color Sided or White Park pattern. This is an incompletely dominant gene which means that a homozygous animal will exhibit 'more' of the color pattern than a heterozygous animal does. It works the same way the 'Hereford gene' works, which is why pure herefords look like herefords and crossbreds are baldies.
Generally White Park are homozygous for this gene, but there are some that are hetero, and occaisionally you can end up with one that doesn't carry the gene at all and is solid black (or rarely red).
If you were to cross a classic (white with dark points) White Park with a Red Angus you would end up with a calf that would have a dorsal stripe (along the back), a white belly and white tail. The head would most likely be dark, and the the sides of the calf would either be solid colored (like a pinz) or possibly speckled, or roan.
Scroll to the middle of this page and you can see what a White Park x Red Angus would likely look like
http://www.texasbritishwhitecattle.com/ ... eBreed.htm
If you were to cross a classic White Park with hereford the calf would have the same coloration possibilities as the Red Angus cross calf, with a white face.
http://easygenes.blogspot.com/2008/02/color-sided.html
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
Randilianna-
Thank you for a VERY interesting discussion of the British White, and/or White Park genetics! I have been exposed to a small extent with these gene factors, but not as thoroughly as you have presented here. It is fascinating to study the various possibilities and combinations of genetic mixtures, and just proves the fact that GOD made NO mistakes!
DOC HARRIS
Thank you for a VERY interesting discussion of the British White, and/or White Park genetics! I have been exposed to a small extent with these gene factors, but not as thoroughly as you have presented here. It is fascinating to study the various possibilities and combinations of genetic mixtures, and just proves the fact that GOD made NO mistakes!
DOC HARRIS
randiliana
Well-known member
DOC HARRIS":3sx5at73 said:
Thank you Doc. I enjoy reading your discussions about phenotype, you encourage us to really think about what we are doing. I enjoy discussing color genetics, because it is something I understand reasonably well. Of all the genes involved in what makes a cow, it is interesing that the ones that have the least to do with the end product are some of the ones that are the most influential in what we raise!! The fact that the color of an animals hide can make such a difference in the profitability of what I am doing makes it something that one should pay attention to. By knowing the way the genes work, and interact makes it easier to make breeding decisions in a commercial based herd.
Avalon
Well-known member
with tounge in cheek. I say Doc do not stand in the way of a woman.
Here is a link to the assn website showing one breeder in AZ. There may be more.
http://www.britishwhite.org/members/mbr_adv.htm
Here is a link to the assn website showing one breeder in AZ. There may be more.
http://www.britishwhite.org/members/mbr_adv.htm
they are excellent mothers, they produce till they are old.but the color pattern never goes away and they get docked because they are marked funny. i have a couple of crosses and the man i bought them from hasn't used any in 20 years. he said the pattern is persistant, use a char bull and they will never know.
greenwillowhereford II
Well-known member
A former member of the boards could tell you about the Hereford/BW cross, if any of the Texas members still know how to get in touch with him.
usernametaken
Well-known member
oldmac":3ufqivg9 said:
Here is another link besides what has been given with breeder listings.
http://www.whitecattle.org
I bought 2 heifers this summer, will be breeding them soon. So far they have been everything the breed associations claim. Easy keeping, gentle natured cattle. My neighbors are keeping a close eye on the one trait they are interested in - resistence to pink eye which is a big problem around here. So far no pink eye. They have lived strictly on our unimproved pastures, with only a mineral suppliment and are well -fleshed. If I had decent pasture for the winter I would make it without hay but will not try it this year. We will begin adding a decent grass hay soon. Randy is correct on the color thing - the British White Park pattern/color almost always dominates . Mostly they are white with black points but sometimes are white with red points. The British White name and the British White Park are the same cattle, sadly split by breed politics. Neither of these are the same thing as the Horned British White Parks who carry the same pattern, but horned and genetically different. I have been told the only breed that can throw the pattern off is the Charolais. Not sure what I will breed mine too yet. I'm not set up to AI, but it seems they are like the farmer's best kept secret and I keep finding Bulls right here in my area, even though no one has heard of breed
They are docked at the sale barn, but some accept that and some others seem to manage to educate some of the buyers and actually get past that. I hope to use most of mine for ourselves and direct sales eventually, which makes the sale barn irrelevant mostlly.
There are no official EPDs but the meat is supposed to have a sweetness to it, rea's are good, and the meat is largely choice grade - with little imput.
I have one picture of one of my heifers on my website http://www.crislipfarms.com if anyone cares to take a look. I will admit the jury is still out but so far I think the cattle are wonderful. I see them all day out my back window too and they sure are pretty to look at.
randiliana
Well-known member
usernametaken":3sfy2l4t said:oldmac":3sfy2l4t said:
Here is another link besides what has been given with breeder listings.
http://www.whitecattle.org
I bought 2 heifers this summer, will be breeding them soon. So far they have been everything the breed associations claim. Easy keeping, gentle natured cattle. My neighbors are keeping a close eye on the one trait they are interested in - resistence to pink eye which is a big problem around here. So far no pink eye. They have lived strictly on our unimproved pastures, with only a mineral suppliment and are well -fleshed. If I had decent pasture for the winter I would make it without hay but will not try it this year. We will begin adding a decent grass hay soon. Randy is correct on the color thing - the British White Park pattern/color almost always dominates . Mostly they are white with black points but sometimes are white with red points. The British White name and the British White Park are the same cattle, sadly split by breed politics. Neither of these are the same thing as the Horned British White Parks who carry the same pattern, but horned and genetically different. I have been told the only breed that can throw the pattern off is the Charolais. Not sure what I will breed mine too yet. I'm not set up to AI, but it seems they are like the farmer's best kept secret and I keep finding Bulls right here in my area, even though no one has heard of breed
They are docked at the sale barn, but some accept that and some others seem to manage to educate some of the buyers and actually get past that. I hope to use most of mine for ourselves and direct sales eventually, which makes the sale barn irrelevant mostlly.
There are no official EPDs but the meat is supposed to have a sweetness to it, rea's are good, and the meat is largely choice grade - with little imput.
I have one picture of one of my heifers on my website http://www.crislipfarms.com if anyone cares to take a look. I will admit the jury is still out but so far I think the cattle are wonderful. I see them all day out my back window too and they sure are pretty to look at.
I can't see Char throwing the pattern off. I imagine what people are thinking, is that it would disguise the pattern, but what you would end up is gray or tan markings, instead of black or red.
usernametaken
Well-known member
I have been told the only breed that can throw the pattern off is the Charolais. Not sure what I will breed mine too yet. I'm not set up to AI, but it seems they are like the farmer's best kept secret and I keep finding Bulls right here in my area, even though no one has heard of breed
Randi wrote:
I can't see Char throwing the pattern off. I imagine what people are thinking, is that it would disguise the pattern, but what you would end up is gray or tan markings, instead of black or red.[/quote]
There is a nice man on the list, in Missouri ?, his name escapes me right now, but they have several ( like 100) BW cows. His dad started with 4 many years back (70"s?). They breed them to Charalois and say it is the only bull they've found the make the pattern go away. Reportedly they get big strapping calves of a muddy yellow color. The cows have no trouble delivering them and being as milky as they tend to be the calves are big and do well at the sale barn. I have not seen it myself, but so no reason why it would not be true.
Randi wrote:
I can't see Char throwing the pattern off. I imagine what people are thinking, is that it would disguise the pattern, but what you would end up is gray or tan markings, instead of black or red.[/quote]
There is a nice man on the list, in Missouri ?, his name escapes me right now, but they have several ( like 100) BW cows. His dad started with 4 many years back (70"s?). They breed them to Charalois and say it is the only bull they've found the make the pattern go away. Reportedly they get big strapping calves of a muddy yellow color. The cows have no trouble delivering them and being as milky as they tend to be the calves are big and do well at the sale barn. I have not seen it myself, but so no reason why it would not be true.
