Breeding ages

[madbeancounter1]

if you've been reading all my posts tonight one thing is leading me to another and I just have to get to the right board.

I feel about as green as a blade of spring grass. Here goes...

I have always understood that you want to breed a first calf heifer so that she calves as near to 24 mos as possible.

If you have two heifer calves born at the same time. One gets bottle fed and hand raised and the other stays on mama. It stands to reason that the one being bottle fed will grow faster. Now, the heart of my question... Just because she grew faster doesn't necessarily mean that she reached sexual maturity faster. In other words, my question is, physical size doesn't necessarily determine ability to breed, does it?

I have read where some of you have posted that you had calved either bought or raised that were bred too soon and I think that I understand the possible outcomes. I just "saw" another conversation where someone told another that he could breed his heifer earlier because she was larger. I just wondered if there was any truth to the matter.

 

[Bama]

I have always understood that you want to breed a first calf heifer so that she calves as near to 24 mos as possible.

If you have two heifer calves born at the same time. One gets bottle fed and hand raised and the other stays on mama. It stands to reason that the one being bottle fed will grow faster. .

Normally the one on mamma will grow off better and will be the larger of the two. its hard to do better than a "good" mama. Normally a 15 month old is ready to breed. Some sooner. One of the biggest factors I use in keeping a heifer is pelvic measurments. If One is stunted and for some reason you decided to keep this one for breeding purposes you could let it go a little longer if you need to. Personally I wouldn't waste time and money on one that is not growing off well enough to breed at 15 months. It would go to the salebarn.

 

[Anonymous]

if you've been reading all my posts tonight one thing is leading me to another and I just have to get to the right board.

I feel about as green as a blade of spring grass.

Not all of us started on the home place with a Mom and Dad or grandparents to show us the ropes - many come up through the school of hard knocks

Here goes...

I have always understood that you want to breed a first calf heifer so that she calves as near to 24 mos as possible.

Well, yes and no.

If you have two heifer calves born at the same time. One gets bottle fed and hand raised and the other stays on mama. It stands to reason that the one being bottle fed will grow faster.

Not always true - genetics plays a big role here

Now, the heart of my question... Just because she grew faster doesn't necessarily mean that she reached sexual maturity faster.

True

In other words, my question is, physical size doesn't necessarily determine ability to breed, does it?

True - but I use size as a judgement as to whether or not I will breed the animal - age is nice - but size detemines the final outcome with me.

I have read where some of you have posted that you had calved either bought or raised that were bred too soon and I think that I understand the possible outcomes.

Yup - it is not fun cutting calves out of smallish heifers.

I just "saw" another conversation where someone told another that he could breed his heifer earlier because she was larger. I just wondered if there was any truth to the matter.

Once again, I use size as my first criteria - 24 months is a good target - in fact I try to have them calve just before this - otherwise I ship them. Costs me too much to keep them if they do not pay their way.

Regards

Bez'

 

[Campground Cattle]

You must have better luck than I do I have never gotten a bottle calf to grow off as well as the one on the cow.
Most times the are a couple of months behind in devlopement.

 

[madbeancounter1]

Bama,

I have juxtaposing results on the bottle feeding. Sam's show calf is smaller than it's twin sister that stayed on Mama but Joe's Murray Grey is larger than her twin sister that stayed on Mama...

But you answered my question. Size can play a factor but age should should play the larger. And within that are the pelvic measurements you mentioned.

From what you wrote one should concentrate more on getting them to breeding age and not worry about trying to breed one early.

See... when it was said that because they might grow larger faster they could be bred earlier it kind of bugged me. Didn't think it was what was best for the animal but hey... what do I know.

 

[madbeancounter1]

Thanks Bez'

your posts always seem to clear things up for me.

everything is interrelated and it is more complex than looking at the designs in a prism.

 

[madbeancounter1]

You must have better luck than I do I have never gotten a bottle calf to grow off as well as the one on the cow.
Most times the are a couple of months behind in devlopement.

Not feeling real lucky right now. More like wiping sweat off my brow after weighing Sam's show heifer on Friday.

Both the boss and I misjudged her weight a couple of months back. Glad I stepped up the protein she was getting when I did or she wouldn't be showing this next week.

 

[stocky]

The calf on the cow will always outgrow the calf on the bottle unless the cow hasnt got much milk. I breed my heifers to calve around 21-22 months and breed to a real easy calving bull and then pull the first calf off at 5 months. I have had real good success doing it that way. All of the heifers wont be the same size no matter what age they are, but if a heifer is too small when the group is the right age, she is sold because she isnt good enough. I dont agree that if a heifer gets bigger faster she should be bred earlier

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Bez'

your posts always seem to clear things up for me.

everything is interrelated and it is more complex than looking at the designs in a prism.

Pas d' sweat mon ami!

Interesting comment.

You're making us dumb farmers out to be somewhat intelligent.

Take care,

Bez'

 

[cowpunk'd]

There is a strong genetic component to sexual maturity - Cows that matured early will have heifers that mature early. The rule of thumb is that she should weigh approx 60% of her mature weight when she is bred. Extra fat on a replacement heifer is a bad thing, it harms future milk production. That is what I would worry about if I had a show heifer. Also what were the birthweights on the M.G twins? Often one is smaller then the other - did the larger calf get picked to be hand raised?

 

[Bama]

I have saw severl time where the smallest of two had a larger pelvic opening. Size and weight ain't all of the equation. To me pelvis size is the most important factor. You just can't poke a dinkle berry through a keyhole.

 

[madbeancounter1]

That's one thing I don't think I have to worry about too much. She's really solidly built... no slop, no pot belly.... Maybe I've done something half right by mistake. ;-)

 

[Bama]

You can't tell from the outside the size of the pelvic opening. You gotta get a little green stuff on your hand/arm.

 

[cowpunk'd]

Bama, I think Madbean was responding to my fat show heifer comment, not your pelvic size comment

 

[Bama]

Probally was, I'm at work and a machine went down I wasn't following to closely.

 

[Bama]

http://ianrpubs.unl.edu/beef/g895.htm#PELVICAREA

For those interested.

 

[madbeancounter1]

Thanks Bez'

your posts always seem to clear things up for me.

everything is interrelated and it is more complex than looking at the designs in a prism.

Pas d' sweat mon ami!

Interesting comment.

You're making us dumb farmers out to be somewhat intelligent.

Take care,

Bez'

Bez', not to get sappy but...

Having grown up the son of farmers for generations upon generations I have the utmost respect for knowledge freely shared and that straightforward and without a bunch of misinformation or bragging involved.

I'd trust a farmer before I'd trust too many other people.

Had to do a speech in high school one time. My opening line was "how many of you think farmers are rich" how many hands do you think went up in the air? that's right all of them but the kids that lived on farms. I went on to explain the concept of parity and why most farmers are not monetarily rich. then I made one final statement.... I was concentrating on family farms/farmers

"there is one way that family farmer is the richest of people... there is an intense comraderie among farm folk that you will not find anywhere else... I have seen more people turn out to help get a harvest in or seed in the ground or to raise a barn. I have seen more neighbors turn out in one place at one time to welcome the newest addition to the neighborhood. I have seen more oldtimers take a newbie under their belt and nurture them until they're ready to be pushed from the nest. To live in harmony with nature, to till the soil and reap the harvest, to husband the animals, to have a community of people who have similar goals to call family and friend makes the farmer the richest of all people."

Yup.... I have saved every speech I wrote for school and every research paper. Don't know what good they do me except that I like looking at them from time to time kind of like a benchmark.

Now after rereading that and after your comment about "dumb farmers" I have to say that in the past two years and mostly in the past 9 months since I rejoined the human race (did I just say that) I have been more at peace with myself and felt more accomplished (even though I haven't been all that successful) than in all the 20 years since I moved off the farm to pursue what I thought was the "good life". All the "good life" is, is life with bigger troubles and for the most part you have to shoulder them alone because everyone else that is chasing the "good life" has got their own problems.

that's just MHO.

 

[madbeancounter1]

Thanks Bama for the website. Added it to my favorites and yes I was reponding to the "fat show heifer" comment and no I'm not afraid of getting the green stuff on me.

Got a shower tonight, in fact, when I had her in the wash rack. Not sure which is worse... running down your back or a face plant.