Brangus X Angus Question?

[gertman]

1st of all Merry Christmas!

I would like to know the thoughts of my fellow cattlemen and cattlewomen on crossing Angus and Brangus. Since a purebred Brangus is 5/8 Angus and 3/8 Brahman, if you crossed a Brangus with a purebred Angus wouldn't the resulting calf be 13/16 Angus and 3/16 Brahman, which is almost a purebred Angus wouldn't you lose alot of the growth advantage from crossbreeding.

 

[dun]

That's where you get in to the downgrading of any heterosis by recombining breeds. But I persoanloly think that you've probably lost about all the heterosis by recombining the breeds to achive the 3/8 5/8 mix. The end result that would be noticable is probably less ear on the calves.

 

[cypressfarms]

Gertman,

In these parts that combination is called an Angus Plus. I have some - I will say that they always bring the most per pound at sale time. Biggest advantage would be the reduced ear. Advantage would be that it still retains some brahman blood. I usually cross the Angus plus with something different like a simmi or hereford. I have an Angus Plus bull that I cross with a group of beefmaster cows. The resulting calves grow quick and big - and are black, which never hurts. The calves that consistently bring the most profit for me are from Angus plus bulls on beefmaster cows. JMO, ofcourse

 

[phillse]

What is your intention to do with the calves?

If you are marketing them commercially and they will end up in a feedlot, why not cross them as someone said earlier with a simmi or hereford as someone suggested earlier. Another line of thought, might be to cross them with a good shorthorn. A red shorthorn over a brangus should throw nearly all black calves with an occasional spotted or roan calf. That way you get heterosis, imporved disposition, and improved marbling.

I myself am going to mate several shorthorn cows with brangus, with the idea of producing repalcement females.

 

[AlaLandMan]

With the premium that Brangus and Brangus sired females are bringing in the SE and SW US, I do not see how anyone in the Southern portions of the US can think of breeding to anything else these days. The steer calves grow out great, and with just a bit of work on the marketing end can be made to bring a premium as well. I was at an auction at the first of the month, in the drought-stricken SE, where 9 month old Brangus-type heifers (an obvious put-together group) brought $900-$1,000 per head. At those numbers, one can afford to take a loss on those steer calves.

You should know that I am a Brangus Breeder, but I am basing my observations on real-world facts. I consistently see my customers selling calves at the local auction barn for a premium and offer a premium myself for all solid-black, vaccinated, 500lb+ heifer calves off my bulls.

 

[cypressfarms]

First, let me say that I'm in the DEEP south, so while some brahman influence is good, too much (read ear) is costly.

A normal Brangus is supposed to be ~ 37% brahman blood (let's throw out the possibility of in making the brangus breed we dilute the brahman).

Cross that Brangus with Angus and the brahman blood drops to 18%. As a matter of fact, cross that Brangus with any other breed that doesn't have brahman blood already (beefmaster, braford, etc) and you still have the same 18% brahman content. It would make sense from a heterosis point of view to cross the Brangus with a non brahman and non angus influenced breed (simmi, hereford, etc.) Even better still from a strictly heterosis point of view would be to cross the Brangus with an European breed like Charolais. At some point you reach a mutt

For my tastes however, an Angus plus bull gives me enough brahman influence to cross with many different breeds without adversely affecting sale price by too much ear. Example: Aplus crossed with a beefmaster gives a good deal of ear but not too much. Aplus crossed with a hereford yields a black baldie with brahman influence. Aplus crossed with simmi yields calves with no ear and very good growth potential. All three of the above yields black calves which -like it or not- yield better prices. If black is not your game throw the Aplus on Charolais and have gray calves with still a 18% brahman infuence.

The Angus Plus just seems a win/win for me.

 

[cypressfarms]

At those numbers, one can afford to take a loss on those steer calves.

Ah, but if those steers had slightly less ear you would not be taking a loss, you'd be making more than you would on the heifers.

 

[novatech]

1st of all Merry Christmas!

I would like to know the thoughts of my fellow cattlemen and cattlewomen on crossing Angus and Brangus. Since a purebred Brangus is 5/8 Angus and 3/8 Brahman, if you crossed a Brangus with a purebred Angus wouldn't the resulting calf be 13/16 Angus and 3/16 Brahman, which is almost a purebred Angus wouldn't you lose alot of the growth advantage from crossbreeding.

There is no doubt that the cross will bring more at a sale barn. Less ear will bring more money. And you are also right you will sacrifice on growth. It is up to you to determine which is the better gain in your market with your cattle.
Generally speaking Black hair will sell better at the barn, as if some how black hair follicles have something to do with aiding the quality of the meat.
This past week I spoke to an assistant manager of the houston livestock show, professor of ranch management, and ranch breeding manager for a ranch that puts over 12,000 head in the feedlot annually. He told me that many of the breed associations were spending a great deal of money on development of black hided animals. The eventual result of this would be a decline in price ounce the market was saturated. Unfortunately the other result would be a further decline in in the overall quality of beef as there is not enough selection on beef quality traits. Their goal at the ranch he manages is quality beef and direct market to the packer. The end result being a relatively large increase in price per lb.

 

[Jogeephus]

1st of all Merry Christmas!

wouldn't you lose alot of the growth advantage from crossbreeding.

From my experience with this cross - yes you will. I agree with the posters who suggested simmi or hereford crosses. It just can't get much better than this. Good growth, meat quality meat, dispostition, and frame will always sell good.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

1st of all Merry Christmas!

I would like to know the thoughts of my fellow cattlemen and cattlewomen on crossing Angus and Brangus. Since a purebred Brangus is 5/8 Angus and 3/8 Brahman, if you crossed a Brangus with a purebred Angus wouldn't the resulting calf be 13/16 Angus and 3/16 Brahman, which is almost a purebred Angus wouldn't you lose alot of the growth advantage from crossbreeding.

i doubt you will lose much growth with this cross. but>personally< i would rather keep my moma's purebred......are you will eventually start to lose growth

 

[backhoeboogie]

There is no doubt that the cross will bring more at a sale barn. Less ear will bring more money.

Nova that is true for steers/bulls. But eared heifers/cows are fetching a lot more nickels in this area. The more ear the better it seems.

 

[novatech]

There is no doubt that the cross will bring more at a sale barn. Less ear will bring more money.

Nova that is true for steers/bulls. But eared heifers/cows are fetching a lot more nickels in this area. The more ear the better it seems.

The largest backgrounder in our area will buy according to the seasons. Now he is buying less ear, In the spring more ear. He says it is a lot more feed efficient that way. On the good side the buyer for ear are from lots on the south coast and take advantage of the savings. Neither buys based on hair color. Looking at the local backgrounders stock I would say they are less than 10% black.

 

[AlaLandMan]

At those numbers, one can afford to take a loss on those steer calves.

Ah, but if those steers had slightly less ear you would not be taking a loss, you'd be making more than you would on the heifers.

Heifers selling for those numbers (at less than 1 year old) will more than make up for the best market premium you get on steer calves...even if you own them all the way to the rail. Also, I promise that if one will do just a bit of homework, you can find someone willing to give market premiums for Brangus-sired steers. Our segment of the cattle industry turns on the slimmest of margins...if one can stretch that margin by $200/head on 50% of the year's production and loose $50-$100/head premium (which should not happen, but for the sake of argument) on 50% of the year's production, then one is obviously a minimum of $50/head better off, and most likely a great deal more.

The problem that is noticed is in what is called "Brangus" To the market, anything black with ear is Brangus. Brangus bulls from a reputable breeder will improve the bottom line for commercial operations for years to come...there is a reason cattlemen are willing to pay for those Brangus momma's...They make sense...dollars and sense! There is also a reason that the second largest seedstock producer in the US headlines their operation with Brangus...they work better (from conception to plate) in the Southern environments...