? bout free martin?

[Black and Good]

I have a really fancy 2yr old heifer that I watched my bull breed many times in November and she didn't take. Today she was bulling again no bull in with her. So, I contacted my A.I. guy who's been doing it for 30+ years and he shows up and just looks at her from the back side and starts talking about how he thinks she might be a free martin cause of how small her female parts look. Then he sleeves her and says her reproductive organs are really small and tells me not to waste my semen on her as he's sure she's baron. Does this all make sense, as I was surprised he could tell that from just looking at her from behind? I had my doubts when the bull didn't settle her. Anyway just wondering what you all think. :compute: B&G

 

[bigbull338]

ive been around cows for well over 45yrs and i can look at heifer at a certain age and know shes a freemartin.1 she has no bagg its tight to her belly.2 you cant see the teats hanging down.3 theres usually no hair on their vulva.

 

[TexasBred]

ive been around cows for well over 45yrs and i can look at heifer at a certain age and know shes a freemartin.1 she has no bagg its tight to her belly.2 you cant see the teats hanging down.3 theres usually no hair on their vulva.

Actually there is often excessive hair on the vulva. Cow jockeys will often burn it off before hauling on to the sale.

 

[Alan]

Educate me please, will a freemartin show signs or give a bull signs of being in heat, let alone stand for him? I know some steers will stand for a bull. Just curious.

Alan

 

[Bigfoot]

Educate me please, will a freemartin show signs or give a bull signs of being in heat, let alone stand for him? I know some steers will stand for a bull. Just curious.

Alan

Yes, many do, perhaps all idk.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

I think it depends on how much tract she has. By the description of the AI tech, I would bet her little ovaries were producing enough hormone to allow her to cycle, but not get pregnant. Each freemartin has a varied amount of "parts" and I think just about most look different from the external. I know ours had a very tiny, tight vulva with a small clitoris externally (a little pink ball at the bottom sticking out). I knew she was a freemartin from the time she was a few weeks on. It all depends on how much of a repro tract she formed, but most I know of never had a heat cycle, and act just like a steer.

 

[FlyingLSimmentals]

My brother had a purebred Simmental heifer that he kept for an addition, he registered her as a young calf. Looked as though to be a pretty nice female, she would cycle every 18 - 21 days or so. The herd bull bred her numerous times and she never ended up sticking. We had no problems with any of the other females sticking to the bull, therefore it had to be the heifer. She finally got a ride to the sale barn to make some more burger for Hardee's or somebody.

 

[dun]

My old mentor referred to thsoe types as functional freemartins. Some freemartins will even settle but won;t carry thre pregnancy for more then a month or so then start cycling again. Insufficient hormones to maintain a pregnancy but enough to conceive.

 

[Black and Good]

Thanks everyone for the replies. This has taught me something. I never would have thought a person could tell anything like that from the outside. I always thought she looked small in the vulva area. But, she's so pretty, I guess I just ignored it. That's what is amazing about cattle even though I was raised around them my whole life seems they teach me something everyday! P.S. When I got this heifer she was around a year and a half old. I Luted her and she never did come in so, I just turned out with the bull then that's when he bred her. I put the bull up for the season and she's been cycling ever since.Thanks again. B&G

 

[ANAZAZI]

Freemartins are often long and lanky, taller than their sisters and with less muscle and often more fat at the time the contemporary heifers start to calve. They are an equivalent to steers in a way, more frame and fat, less muscle, high marbling. Lady parts are often small(ish) and sometimes have odd shapes. Horns often less feminine and straighter than normal. Most do not cycle or stand for bulls, but like Dun says there are all varieties from totally sterile to "normal". Around 8% of twin heifers are fertile, and thus not called freemartins.

 

[3waycross]

Thanks everyone for the replies. This has taught me something. I never would have thought a person could tell anything like that from the outside. I always thought she looked small in the vulva area. But, she's so pretty, I guess I just ignored it. That's what is amazing about cattle even though I was raised around them my whole life seems they teach me something everyday! P.S. When I got this heifer she was around a year and a half old. I Luted her and she never did come in so, I just turned out with the bull then that's when he bred her. I put the bull up for the season and she's been cycling ever since.Thanks again. B&G

Rod, did they disclose to you that she was a twin to a bull calf?

 

[dun]

If you're willing to pour more good money after bad, you could have her blood tested for freemartin.

 

[Black and Good]

Thanks everyone for the replies. This has taught me something. I never would have thought a person could tell anything like that from the outside. I always thought she looked small in the vulva area. But, she's so pretty, I guess I just ignored it. That's what is amazing about cattle even though I was raised around them my whole life seems they teach me something everyday! P.S. When I got this heifer she was around a year and a half old. I Luted her and she never did come in so, I just turned out with the bull then that's when he bred her. I put the bull up for the season and she's been cycling ever since.Thanks again. B&G

Rod, did they disclose to you that she was a twin to a bull calf?

No, I and I didn't ask. :roll: Just one of those deals. You win some you lose some. I thinking bout cutting her head off and eating her! :nod: B&G

 

[3waycross]

If that is a registered heifer I would be demanding my money back. I don't usually say that but if they knew she was a freemartin and they sold her to you as a breeding heifer they should be shot.

 

[cow pollinater]

I'm with 3waycross. If she was a twin and you bought her as a breeding heifer that's a big problem. About the only way for them not to know is if the cow ditched the bull calf and only raised the heifer and the freemartin heifer is always the weaker of the two so that's a slim chance.

 

[cow pollinater]

An interesting(at least to me) aside... If you ever do get one that carries a calf to term, and some do but it's a fraction of a percent, the resulting calf would geneticly have two fathers and no mother.
Now you know why I can't remember names or birthdays.

 

[dun]

I'm with 3waycross. If she was a twin and you bought her as a breeding heifer that's a big problem. About the only way for them not to know is if the cow ditched the bull calf and only raised the heifer and the freemartin heifer is always the weaker of the two so that's a slim chance.

A freemartin doesn;t have to be "born" twin to a bull. There is some evidence that if she was carrying twins and the bull was abort/sloughed early on you would never know or suspect she would be a freemartin.

 

[Black and Good]

If that is a registered heifer I would be demanding my money back. I don't usually say that but if they knew she was a freemartin and they sold her to you as a breeding heifer they should be shot.

No, not Reg. She's a heifer I bought from an individual. Told me she was cycling but never had bull. That might be ture but, he sure had alot of Bullchit! B&G

 

[Dubcharo]

We have a cow twin with a bull and she had her third calf this year everything looks normal on her. Last year we had 3 female-male couples and the 3 heifers had vulva below of 1-2 inch of where it's suppose to be. They were peeing at 10 foot when the tail was not in the way!

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

An interesting(at least to me) aside... If you ever do get one that carries a calf to term, and some do but it's a fraction of a percent, the resulting calf would geneticly have two fathers and no mother.
Now you know why I can't remember names or birthdays.

I am not sure if I understand what you are saying here. A freemartin heifer is just like a regular heifer genetically, but her repro tract was not developed due to the testosterone from the bull calf forming (so environmental cause, not genetics). She has a sire and a dam. In the very unusual case when you get one that does have a fully functional repro tract, and she can have a calf, that calf is dammed by her and sired by the bull, so genetically has a sire and a dam.
So why am I having a hard time understanding the resulting calf would have two fathers and no mothers? I usually follow your thinking CP, but having a hard time here with this one, and I know you have a ton of experience in this.

And speaking of freemartin females that can have a calf, has anyone figured out WHY it happens? I know why the repro tract does not form, so what prevents the testosterone from the male twin from crossing over the placental membrane in the very few cases of fertile freemartin heifers?