Bottle baby . . . this belongs on the beginner's board

[Kathie in Thorp]

I've not messed with a bottle calf in 35 years! But one is coming here Sunday, that was born on Wed. Neighbor had a beef cow that twinned and she can't support both. Rejection was not an issue; bull calf had his colostrum and is now started on milk replacer. Mom was fully up on her vaccinations. What should I have on hand besides replacer and electrolites? Should I have some antibiotic on hand? He'll have barn shelter absent the big cattle, and a romping space outside.

 

[djinwa]

I raised a couple bottle calves two years ago, and learned a few things. First, don't go cheap on the milk replacer. Get stuff that is made with real milk. The stuff with soy protein is not good for their first month. It can cause allergies, and calves can't digest soy protein until at least 3 weeks of age. Undigested replacer travels down their digestive tract and causes scours. This was my experience the first week until I went and got the good stuff.

Antibiotics generally do more harm than good, as they mess up the normal bacteria in the gut.

Keep the pen clean and your calf should do well. It's coming from a good source - not like a salebarn or somewhere it could pick up bugs. And being a single, won't have other calves from which it can catch something.

Here's a good article.
http://txanc.org/wp-content/uploads/201 ... placer.pdf

 

[denvermartinfarms]

I have honestly raised thousands of bottle calves and yes you need antibiotics. Baytril is good on a baby for respiratory, If he gets scours ampicillon works good.

 

[djinwa]

I have honestly raised thousands of bottle calves and yes you need antibiotics. Baytril is good on a baby for respiratory, If he gets scours ampicillon works good.

I'm not saying you should never use antibiotics. But your situation is much different than Kathie's. She has one calf from a beef cow. Not very economical for her to spend a bunch on antibiotics now when there is a low chance of illness.

You have raised thousands of calves. I don't know your operation, but generally it is more likely in that situation to have some with unknown colostrum status, and it also increases the chance of spreading disease between calves. And can have more stress.

Many different bugs can cause diarrhea in calves. I assume you have had an evaluation of your disease problem, and know which organism is the problem, and are using the correct drug, given the right way. Your calves may get better after antibiotics, but that is not evidence of effectiveness. Often things improve without antibiotics, so whether it does any good would be determined by controlled studies - one group of randomly chosen calves with antibiotics, and another group without, and see which does better.

I see the industry as a whole suffering from an image problem with too much use of antibiotics. Ideally you would know which bug you are treating and use the right drug, as we've created alot of resistance problems with widespread use. I have seen that it is human nature to want to use antibiotics because it just feels right.

From the Merck Veterinary Manual:
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index ... /22108.htm

The use of antimicrobials is not supported by most clinical trials and not indicated in diarrhea induced by viruses or protozoa. Antibiotics may be of value in treating diarrhea associated with enterotoxigenic or attaching and effacing E coli . The route of administration should be oral, and the choice based on sensitivity testing. When septicemic disease, due to inadequate transfer of colostral immunoglobulins, is suspected as a complication, parenterally [give a shot] administered antibiotics are also indicated. Salmonellosis should be treated with parenteral antimicrobials.

http://ag.arizona.edu/arec/pubs/rmg/4%2 ... rhea93.pdf

The routine use of oral and injectable
antibiotics cannot be recommended,
although occasionally they are of
benefit. Antibiotic therapy may be of
benefit for some bacterial organisms
such as salmonella, but antibiotic resistant
strains of bacteria are very
common or may develop quickly and
these drugs may soon have little or no
effect. Indiscriminate or improper use
of antibiotics promotes the development
of antibiotic-resistant strains of
bacteria as does continuous low-level
feeding of these drugs. Antibiotics
have no effect against viruses and will
not compensate for a lack of colostrum.
Inappropriate use of antibiotics, particularly
nonapproved ones, may lead to
the development of illegal residues in
the tissues of treated calves. Prolonged
treatment or overdosage of
calves with antibiotics may lead to
fungal overgrowth in the gut resulting in
chronic, non-responsive diarrhea and
death in calves so treated. In herd
outbreaks of NCD, and accurate
diagnosis of the cause is essential for
optimal treatment. Qualified professional
veterinary assistance should be
sought in the diagnosis and treatment
of herd outbreaks of NCD.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

I raised a couple bottle calves two years ago, and learned a few things. First, don't go cheap on the milk replacer. Get stuff that is made with real milk. The stuff with soy protein is not good for their first month. It can cause allergies, and calves can't digest soy protein until at least 3 weeks of age. Undigested replacer travels down their digestive tract and causes scours. This was my experience the first week until I went and got the good stuff.

Antibiotics generally do more harm than good, as they mess up the normal bacteria in the gut.

Keep the pen clean and your calf should do well. It's coming from a good source - not like a salebarn or somewhere it could pick up bugs. And being a single, won't have other calves from which it can catch something.

Here's a good article.
http://txanc.org/wp-content/uploads/201 ... placer.pdf

djinwa, what brand of milk replacer do you recommend? I'm not sure what the calf is on now, but I'll make sure we have the "right" stuff when he arrives. Thx.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

The main point i was trying to make was if the calf does get sick spend a little more and get something good to give it, rather than what some do and let it die with la200.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

The main point i was trying to make was if the calf does get sick spend a little more and get something good to give it, rather than what some do and let it die with la200.

Thx, dmf.

 

[Alan]

A couple of years ago I raised a twin heifer by bootle. She was the first born and ended up laying in an inch or two of standing water. So she got cold and couldn't stand, nothing a few hours on a blanket next to the wood stove didn't fix. She spent her first night on the front porch, the next morning she was standing in the middle of the yard ... So to the barn. Even with her chilly birth she needed no anti biotics. In your case only thing I would watch right away is shipping sickness, may need a dose of LA200. I had never raised a bottle baby so figured what the heck, but the two main things I did different were I never put her on a bucket, stayed with a bottle until I weaned her at about 5 and 1/2 months, I stayed witha bottle to avoid milk belly and it worked great. Second thing I did decided to feed more milk as she got older, by about three months she was on two bottles twice a day plus calf starter and free choice hay. She and her twin are well bred cattle so I wanted to see if I could have her wean out as heavy as her naturally raised twin. She was a little lighter and slightly small so I was glad I gave her the extra milk. Now I was raising a replacment heifer were your raising a steer (?), also I was experimenting a bit. You may not want to add the extra expense of extra feed.

The two things I learned from the experience; extra feed and staying with a bottle worked well for me. Second, I hope I never have to raise another bottle baby, lots of extra work and expense.

 

[Alan]

The main point i was trying to make was if the calf does get sick spend a little more and get something good to give it, rather than what some do and let it die with la200.

Thx, dmf.

??? LA200 has always worked well for me. With any anti biotic you can't let the illness go too long befor you start to treat.

Good advice on avoiding soy milk. Also most milk replacers are medicated.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

The main point i was trying to make was if the calf does get sick spend a little more and get something good to give it, rather than what some do and let it die with la200.

Thx, dmf.

??? LA200 has always worked well for me. With any anti biotic you can't let the illness go too long befor you start to treat.

Good advice on avoiding soy milk. Also most milk replacers are medicated.

Well the best family of cattle vets in this part of the country say and i learned this on my own to, that if you have a perfectly fine animal with nothing wrong la200 will work great on it :lol2: .

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

A couple of years ago I raised a twin heifer by bootle. She was the first born and ended up laying in an inch or two of standing water. So she got cold and couldn't stand, nothing a few hours on a blanket next to the wood stove didn't fix. She spent her first night on the front porch, the next morning she was standing in the middle of the yard ... So to the barn. Even with her chilly birth she needed no anti biotics. In your case only thing I would watch right away is shipping sickness, may need a dose of LA200. I had never raised a bottle baby so figured what the heck, but the two main things I did different were I never put her on a bucket, stayed with a bottle until I weaned her at about 5 and 1/2 months, I stayed witha bottle to avoid milk belly and it worked great. Second thing I did decided to feed more milk as she got older, by about three months she was on two bottles twice a day plus calf starter and free choice hay. She and her twin are well bred cattle so I wanted to see if I could have her wean out as heavy as her naturally raised twin. She was a little lighter and slightly small so I was glad I gave her the extra milk. Now I was raising a replacment heifer were your raising a steer (?), also I was experimenting a bit. You may not want to add the extra expense of extra feed.

The two things I learned from the experience; extra feed and staying with a bottle worked well for me. Second, I hope I never have to raise another bottle baby, lots of extra work and expense.

Alan, we are not planning on bunches of bottle babies. One baby, on a bottle and not a bucket. We'll have calf manna available, and hay when he seems interested. He will shortly be a steer. Someday he'll be a beef, but right now, he's sort of a rescue that isn't a freeby. We can keep him on a bottle for . . . . . forever? LOL!! We'll just see how it goes. Chuck will be well taken care of, but not a permanent pet.

 

[cow pollinater]

Two cheapies to have on hand are regular old penicillin and a bag of resorb. At the first sign of trouble hit with the penicillin and switch the bottle to the resorb and it will buy you a day to figure out if there's something really wrong and they're both real easy on a calf so there's not much downside if you were wrong.

 

[robertwhite]

Anyone tell me how much replacer should a week old calf be drinking?

Lost a momma to prolapse last week and her bull calf is being bottle fed. Directions say 2x a day, but no way will he be happy with that. He will drink a full 2 qt bottle (medicated powder) 3x a day and still be looking for more. Started to give him a taste of calf starter today and hopefully he will take to that quick. Always plenty of water in the pen, but he just looks for that bottle 24/7 (big ol' pig & strong as an ox)

 

[denvermartinfarms]

2 qts two times a day, and get on feed at a week or 2 old.

 

[Alan]

While I only raised one bottle calf myself, I fed hundreds growing up on a dairy. The only got a bottle twice a day, grain and hay. Two bottles a day is plenty of milk. The bottle calf I raised I fed heavy and even after 4 bottles a day she acted starved.

 

[robertwhite]

While I only raised one bottle calf myself, I fed hundreds growing up on a dairy. The only got a bottle twice a day, grain and hay. Two bottles a day is plenty of milk. The bottle calf I raised I fed heavy and even after 4 bottles a day she acted starved.

Guess I will have to concentrate on getting him to take the starter grain, and use it in place of one of the bottles.

Can a calf get too much milk (replacer)?

 

[backhoeboogie]

Yes they can get to much. Get a good calf starter and give him a little. You might spread a table spoon of milk replacer powder on top of it.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

Absolutely, I know you can over-feed any bottle baby!! Their suck reflex is bigger than the tummies.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

I have fed some calves 3 bottles a day for 3 months before, they do good and look as good as if they had been on a cow, and just feeding a few you could do this, but it's not the way it has to be done for sure.

 

[Alan]

While I agree you can give a calf too much milk replacer. Denver stated he fed 3 bottles a day for three months and I worked my heifer to 4 bottles a day for 2 plus months and 3 a day from the time she was probably 10 to twelve weeks until I kicked her up to 4. No problems and she weaned very close to her twin. I have little idea how much too much is but 2 bottle for a new born is more than enough.