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frenchie

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Possible BSE case should not affect border opening
this document web posted: Thursday, December 30, 2004 20041223p1

By Barbara Duckworth
Calgary bureau

A potential new case of BSE in a 10-year-old dairy cow from Alberta should not affect the American decision to resume live cattle trade with Canada on March 7, according to Canadian officials.

The cow was a downer, one of the four high risk categories. Brain tissue samples submitted for testing showed inconclusive results through two rapid tests last week.

A final diagnostic test is under way at the Canadian Science Centre for Human and Animal Health in Winnipeg. Confirmation is expected in two to four days, said Canadian Food Inspection Agency officials Dec. 30.

The suspect animal's background in already under investigation with a broader check expected if the test is positive.

"Such a case was not completely unexpected," said CFIA veterinarian Francine Lord.

Since the first case was found in May, 2003 the agency predicted a few more cases were possible.

Another case of BSE does not change Canada's minimal risk status. According to international animal health guidelines, a country can have up to two cases of BSE per million head of cattle in a 12 month period and retain its minimal risk status.

The animal's carcass did not enter the food chain.

The animal was born before a 1997 ban was instituted on including remains from ruminant animals in feed destined for other ruminant, or multi-stomached, animals such as cows.

Young Canadian cattle could start flowing across the American border by March 7, 2005.

The long awaited United States Department of Agriculture rule was announced Dec. 29 lifting the import ban on cattle, sheep, goats, cervids like deer and elk, as well as llamas and alpacas. Most international customers ceased ruminant meat and livestock trade 19 months ago after a single case of bovine spongiform encephalopathy was announced May 20, 2003.

The Canadian Cattlemen's Association said this is the news livestock producers have been waiting to hear.

"We're going to see a lot more renewed confidence in the industry," said Dennis Laycraft, CCA executive vice-president.

"At the same time we're going to do our best to maintain the expanded capacity that we have put in place and step up our marketing efforts to make sure we are never as vulnerable we were the last 19 months," he said.

The rule designates Canada as a minimal risk region because of the steps it implemented to control BSE. It has restricted imports from BSE positive countries since 1990, its BSE testing program exceeds international guidelines and has maintained an effective ruminant to ruminant feed ban since 1997.

The rule requests the following:

Cattle younger than 30 months must carry a CAN brand on the right hip, individual ear tag identification tracing it to its farm of origin and appropriate health of animals paperwork. Cattle must be shipped in sealed containers to designated feedlots or slaughterhouses.
Meat, meat byproducts and meat food products must be derived from animals where all specified risk materials including the brain, skull, eyes, glands, spinal column, vertebral column excluding the tail and dorsal root ganglia have been removed. The small intestine and tonsils must be removed from cattle of all ages. These are the areas considered to carry the infectious BSE agent.
Tallow with less than 0.15 percent insoluble impurities and not mixed with other material of animal origin is acceptable. Gelatin is acceptable if it was derived from the bones of bovines subject to the ruminant feed ban and from which all SRMs were removed.
Sheep and goats younger than 12 months must carry a C brand, appropriate ear tags and health certification papers. Sheep casings from animals under 12 months that were subject to the ruminant to ruminant feed ban are allowed. The USDA is prohibiting the importation of sheep or gaots that are positive, suspect for any transmissible spongiform encephalopathies.
Deer, elk and meat are no longer restricted. The USDA is removing the requirement that hunter harvested meat be accompanied by a Canadian government certificate.
Llamas, alpacas, guanacos and vicunas are no longer restricted.
 
frenchie

In Alberta there used to be a bumper sticker that was quite common:

"Please dear God - let there be another oil boom. I promise not to p!ss it all away again"

Well, I want the border to stay closed. I want our own initiatives to be carried forward.

I know we can compete against our southern neighbours. In fact even tho' our dollar has gone up - it is still attractive enough that we could take a serious chunk out of their own export markets. We might even mop the floor if we made a couple of decisive moves. That's truly sound business.

If the border opens we go back to the status quo. All processing plants go on hold. Jobs go south. Their closed processing plants re-open. We take whatever price the buyer decides.

As long as the border stays closed, the U.S. of A. closes its' plants, does not have enogh cattle to supply its' own domestic market and its' export market. They are starting to hurt more then we are - it was simply a matter of time.

The U.S. of A. imports our animal - live - and provides jobs south of the border - and exports OUR beef under their own programs. Their industry grows and ours goes back to sucking the hind tit. Stagnation again.

We are not members of an integrated market, because it can only be integrated if BOTH parties agree to be involved in an integrated market. That is NOT the case.

Soon we can mount our own bumper stickers:

"Please dear God tell us how to keep our beef industry healthy - we
p!ssed away an opportunity"

We sit in the drivers seat and NOT ONE leader had stepped up to the plate. We are going to p!ss away a HUGE opportunity - and we are too stupid to do anything about it.

The American beef industry is laughing all the way to the bank. We in turn will struggle to make up our losses over the next 10 years and wonder "What in the heck just happened?"

Bez
 
Bez ,
I fail to see how opening the border will cause any ill effect . Money takes the path of least resistance. If you can compete then compete. You Canadians certainly do a nice job competing in the cow calf arena, and I think in the feedlot .
 
Bez":s58v4w8d said:
frenchie


Well, I want the border to stay closed. I want our own initiatives to be carried forward.

Personally I do agree the border is better closed...it would be better for the industry as a whole in Canada. but in the meantime we will lose producers till those plants are up and running...





What makes you think they will source their shortfall of beef from Canada.Furthermore what makes you think ,there won,t be tariffs imposed on Canada beef, if the volume is too great.

Frenchie

this is a short reply as I,m headed out the door to feed cows.
 
ollie

You do not have a clear understanding of the Canadian business thought process.

Canadians as a whole tend to do nothing until it is absolutely necessary. In this case the border closure caused the cattlemen to realize they had to act or the industry could literally fold.

In the past, most cattlemen were quite content to raise their animals and take the price they were offered. Then, when the border closed they were offered a price that they could not afford to accept - but were FORCED to accept.

So that started the ball rolling. Started looking at value adding - processing in this country and developing our own markets. We started looking to develop foreign markets - and it was going somewhere. Most countries really like our trace back system.

When the border opening was announced, the majority of cattlemen heaved a great sigh of relief. A new market.

The offset to that will be the slow down - or worse - the cancellation of the new plants that were to be built in Canada. Guaranteeing us a place to send our cattle for processing.

As it stands right now we CANNOT process our own animals in this country. We simply do not have the capacity.

I fear we may never have that capacity - and it puts our industry at risk.

Unfortunately this is a market where the cattlemen have absolutely no control. As long as this new market offers the same price as the packers in this country are now offering I see no benefit.

Yes, there is the added benefit of competition for the animal and the price goes up. But, how much?

We are sending hundreds of jobs outside our country. I know how big that goes over in the U.S. of A. when a company closes and goes south to Mexico or across the pond to China. It barely causes a ripple here when we send jobs out of country.

If for some reason the border is closed again - or a trade dispute causes us to be at risk ie: softwood lumber - well, we are once again in a situation where we have NO alternative.

Your country has a huge population compared to Canada. California has more people than all of Canada. If we are placed in a situation where we cannot process our own product - then we are ALWAYS at risk. You on the other hand can at least continue to process all your animals in-country and sell those processed animals to your domestic market.

I know there are many packers in the U.S. that have closed or reduced because of lack of product. While I am not attempting to be antagonistic, I really do not want to supply you with jobs that we could use in our own country. I live here and I want our economy to prosper.

So I really believe we need to build those plants here. Manitoba has none in the province - a huge cattle producer for this country - and not one plant in the province? We really need to give our heads a shake.

If this happened once, it certainly can happen again.

If we do not protect our own butts, you folks will always have us by the short and curlies. Not a place anyone wants to be.

Regards

Bez
 
Bez

Don,t shoot the messanger.

You make valid points.....What concerns me is the number of producers here that go under waiting for the plants to come on line.

Plants can,t be build over night too damm many regulations here.. we did,nt get into this situation overnite and we won,t get out of it overnite either..we need to lobby our provincial cattle groups to promote more of these plants.Perhaps a checkoff would be in order as well.The co-operative concept could be employed.


As far as Manitoba,s lack of packing capacity, I am painfully aware of it.I would gladly put some money into a co-operative venture for animals under 30 months


.
 
I see you got the cows feds! I took a break and did the same.

:D

Ain't shootin' any messenger, just stating my opinion. Heck I always try to stay polite here - if I wrote the way I talked at some of the meetings I go to I figure I'd be the next person banned from the board.

Way I see it we are going to take a step backwards.

Be that as it may, stepped off of the phone with a gentleman from BIG-C tonight - yeah, even us eastern b*&^%'s do a little talking with the folks in the west - there has been some research and speculation in the CANFAX arena - it looks like with the dollar the price it is, feed the price it is - there is an expectation that the packers will be buying cows in Canada to fill some empty feedlots. Keep as many cows in Canada as they can. Bigger profit by processing the cattle in Canada.

So what we have is a slow movement of fats south, possibly a small increase in price and a potential big pile of those danged packer owned cattle going to the feed lots to provide a steady, low priced supply to the big guys. Good business sense - gotta' hand it to the packers - they have their act together. The R-CALF folks who bought cattle in Canada over the past year will be happy with this. They should make a few bucks as well. And all of that meat will be boxed and sent to the U.S. of A.

In other words it may not be enough to help those who are going down anyways.

More and more I am liking the BIG-C philosophy.

I know we can't build anything overnight, but we did get into this mess overnight. In fact it was a one day affair.

Yeah, I know it took us a few years to dismantle our packing plants - but it was with the unwritten agreement we were an integrated industry - and we willingly sent all of those jobs south as well.

I am determined that we will get out of this - even if this place falls - and believe me it is closer than you might think. But we will not get out of this mess if the cattle producers in Canada allow the rebuilding process to get set on the back burner. That is now in serious danger of happening - if I am wrong I will be more than happy to stand up and say I was wrong - and God help me I truly hope I am wrong - but gut instinct tells me I am not.

At present I have no faith in the "established" orgs like the ABP, OFA, CCA, OCA and so on keeping the heat up. These folks - my opinion only - as uninformed as it may be - are in many cases personally doing ok and have lost touch with us at the grass roots level. Us peons have lost the ability to have them listen to us.

My wife was in danger of being ejected from a convention recently because she took a president to task and would not back down!

At five foot one she reminds me of a heeler at times - not afraid / or too stupid to back down. :D :D

We simply cannot continue to operate the Grandpa did. It took Gencor less than 12 months to get up and running in south Ontario and they are now in EXPANSION mode. Just a bunch of dairy farmers - what did they know about the industry? Well, they were smart, proactive and truly performed - good on them! Where are the others? PEI is up and running as well.

These initiatives started AFTER the border closed. So, I have to respectfully and strongly disagree with your comment below.

Plants can,t be build over night

Any group that has been operating in the let's get things going mode for 12 months and does not have the concrete foundation poured yet is dithering. Time for a management change, or a change in the board of directors.

As for environmental issues and regs - trust me - Ontario is one of the toughest - and this plant in Ontario is running full tilt. I would love to hear from someone in PEI that is in the know about their plant.

The problem with many esteemed leaders is they love to junket around the world - business class - and do nothing more than talk. On our dime.

Performance - NOT - words - counts. I am not seeing a lot of performance from the established cattle representatives - it has been the upstarts that have been performing - despite being publicly ridiculed by the established organizations.

I look forward to your reply.

Bez
 
frenchie

What is the latest scuttlebutt on the Dauphin plant?

Bez
 
Bez":27bre5d8 said:
frenchie

What is the latest scuttlebutt on the Dauphin plant?

Bez


The Ranchers Choice plant is going ahead.By the way it is a Cow/ bull slaughter facility.
 
bez..

If you are not happy with the leadership of thes orgs in Canada..Why don,t you run for the leadership.

As far as dairy farmers starting Gencor...does it process cattle uinder 30 months.It must be nice to have all that milk money to play with.THEIR MAIN REVENUE....Something most of us in the west don,t have.Money is the biggest obstacle here.That is also why they have had such a hard time raising funds.

Of course The packers want to process as much as possible on this side of the line.


I DISAGREE about this happening overnite.The seeds of this situation were planted ,when we gave up control of our industry.We are just reaping the harvest now.

You know you were right about 1 or 2 plants being built over nite...
Now can we get enough packing capacity on line to handle our production?

Not as long as people keep planning on breeding those animals in the Set- aside program.Or retaining heifers.

frenchie
 
Leadership

Well, this family is already there - wife is on two boards and working from within. She figures I am too crusty to run - so she does! Because I get some inside skinny it helps me when I get into discussions at times.

I think I am as happy here as some in AB are with the ABP - but that does not stop me from working on various projects. As I have some financial knowledge, I tend to be involved in a fair bit of back room dealings. Mostly as an organizer and promoter. My multiple phone bills prove it. :D

My biggest problem is negativity from folks who want it to go back to the Grandpa did it. Money is actually available - in surprizing amounts at times. Unfortunately, the average beef guy is getting to the age he/she does not want to get involved. Times are changing - if we do not change with them we are doomed. The future may be uncertain, but we have to advance.

What is happening with the Natural Valley operation I just heard about? Another in Dauphin?

Completely agree with your comments on the dairy guys and their main source of income. However they are now really taking in the beef at Gencor. It will succeed.

Do you know anything about PEI? It is real quiet out there.

As for hold back - well, people will do what they have to do. I am not a fan, but is there another solution at this time? It is simply going to push back the rush for a few months - in my opinion it will - if we are lucky - just stretch out the time frame for "take ins". If some are unlucky, it will simply delay the inevitable.

http://www.gencorfoods.ca/index.asp

Gencor Foods Inc. gratefully acknowledges the funding support from the Ontario Government's Mature Animal Abattoir Fund and the Agricultural Adaptation Council's CanAdapt Program.

We need at least one more in this province - Gencor is about 8 hours away by road. There will come a time when they process under 30 months of age animals. I believe that if the new plants are successful we will see them all go to under 30 months of age animals given time.

Speaking of Natural Valley, I have just sent them an email. Their knowledge on start up is exactly what we need in this area. I did a little research and found that within 80 miles of me there are - according to Ont gov stat almost 400K cattle - split 50-50 beef and dairy. Ontario has a cattle population of over 2.3 million - split amost 50-50 beef and dairy. I suspect we could support another plant in our region rather than haul 8 hours for slaughter. Who knows if they are prepared to share their information and knowledge - but nothing ventured - nothing gained.

With a population of 4 million within one hour drive and easy access to the U.S. of A. - to me it is a natural fit - time will tell.

Believe it or not I am off to buy cattle today - not for me thank heavens. Neighbour has too much time and money on his hands I suppose - so will go with him to look at a herd.

Stay well,

Bez
 
I'll let you know if anything develops with some of the initiatives we are working on at this end

Bez
 
Bez":i7gnwxdu said:
Speaking of Natural Valley, I have just sent them an email. Their knowledge on start up is exactly what we need in this area........Ontario has a cattle population of over 2.3 million - split amost 50-50 beef and dairy. I suspect we could support another plant in our region rather than haul 8 hours for slaughter.
Good to see the the motivation you have for self-help and independence, Bez. We could use more of that kind of thinking everywhere. But, you've got me kind of confused. Let's say I'm one of the big packers. I have some people like you courting me to establish a plant. Great possibilities! Good deal for all of us, right? But, wait! Seems like I recall just a few days ago......
Bez":i7gnwxdu said:
Cull cows should never enter the food chain. Especially dairy cows. 95% or more of the dairy owners will not eat their own culls, so why should they expect others to do so?

Kill all culls, render them into dog food and fertilizer, or burn them for energy as in Europe. Period!

Now, the big packer is confused. Very, very confused. To appeal to me now, you talk about all of the cattle that would be available to me. Then at some point you might want to take them away? You want me to invest millions and millions of dollars to establish industry in your area? Then you want to take away part of my resources? Take away some of my raw materials? Hmmmmm.

Bez, the point I'm trying to make is that the raw numbers of cattle that you talk about can't really mean anything to me as the packer. There might be more people up there like you that want to tell me that at some point I might not be able to use them all to run my chains. It just sounds to me like you want me, the packer, to intervene with my money now. But at some point in the future, you might also ask the government to intervene and tell me what I can or can't kill at my plant. That's not a very friendly environment to set up a business in, is it? I think I'd have to pass.......
 
I think that your opinion on cull cattle may be a bit off. it depends where these cull cattle come from. I know back in the late eighties there was a group south of Winnipeg that were buying skinny, ugly looking cows at the sale barn and filling them full of all kinds of chemicals to get them fat enough for resale. Who would want to eat that? I've seen those old holsteins with the sunken eyes and the dull haircoats that the dairy guys ship to the salebarns. Those don't look like something I'd want to eat either. However, we eat our own culls and the neighbor ships open culls that look as good as alot of fed cattle and I would have no trouble eating steaks and hamburger off of one of those. I think that its important to maintain the quality of the beef that we are offering up to the consumer and some of those cull cows just won't cut it. All a consumer would need right now is one bad experience with beef to turn them off eating it again any time soon. Its all about offering a consistently quality product and whatever it takes to do that is what we need to do.
As far as the processing plants coming up in Manitoba, If this Nature Valley plant is the one I'm thinking about, it is supposed to be going in Neepawa right beside the Springhill hog processing plant. This is supposed to be an organic beef plant. There will be no antibiotics of any kind allowed in that program. If I could find somebody to finish my cattle for me, I definitely would ship there. I think it will do well if they can get it up and running.
 
Texan":2em04oaj said:
Bez":2em04oaj said:
Speaking of Natural Valley, I have just sent them an email. Their knowledge on start up is exactly what we need in this area........Ontario has a cattle population of over 2.3 million - split amost 50-50 beef and dairy. I suspect we could support another plant in our region rather than haul 8 hours for slaughter.
Good to see the the motivation you have for self-help and independence, Bez. We could use more of that kind of thinking everywhere. But, you've got me kind of confused. Let's say I'm one of the big packers. I have some people like you courting me to establish a plant. Great possibilities! Good deal for all of us, right? But, wait! Seems like I recall just a few days ago......
Bez":2em04oaj said:
Cull cows should never enter the food chain. Especially dairy cows. 95% or more of the dairy owners will not eat their own culls, so why should they expect others to do so?

Kill all culls, render them into dog food and fertilizer, or burn them for energy as in Europe. Period!

Now, the big packer is confused. Very, very confused. To appeal to me now, you talk about all of the cattle that would be available to me. Then at some point you might want to take them away? You want me to invest millions and millions of dollars to establish industry in your area? Then you want to take away part of my resources? Take away some of my raw materials? Hmmmmm.

Bez, the point I'm trying to make is that the raw numbers of cattle that you talk about can't really mean anything to me as the packer. There might be more people up there like you that want to tell me that at some point I might not be able to use them all to run my chains. It just sounds to me like you want me, the packer, to intervene with my money now. But at some point in the future, you might also ask the government to intervene and tell me what I can or can't kill at my plant. That's not a very friendly environment to set up a business in, is it? I think I'd have to pass.......

You know the USDA better not fudge this one up. If this animal ends up having BSE then imports should not be allowed from Canada PERIOD. As US ranchers we cannot allow the Canucks to lump us into their mess, we are two countries NOT a north american beef team like they want to call it. ALL cases of BSE in North America have came from Canada, I think were seeing a pattern here, eliminate the problem. The only good thing you have up there is your trace back, to much red tape here so far to get the same thing, but it seems you need that trace back yearly now. I guess you and Bez you and I agree on one thing, KEEP IT CLOSED.
 
ALL cases of BSE in North America have came from Canada

I think that should say 'ALL reported cases of BSE in North America have came from Canada'

I think that the fact that we are finding our cases of BSE in Canada is giving is giving our export partners alot of confidence in our system.
 
Here's an article on the new Manitoba Beef Plant.


Man. plans new packer
this document web posted: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 20041223p55

By Karen Briere
Regina bureau

A new $9 million slaughter plant could be operating in Neepawa, Man., by 2006.

It would be a sister plant to Natural Valley Farms Inc. in Saskatchewan. Natural Valley is retrofitting a former laboratory in Wolseley, Sask., and constructing a plant in Neudorf, Sask. The company will concentrate on marketing natural beef and cull cow meat.

Natural Prairie Beef Inc. in Neepawa would slaughter 50,000 head each year and ship them to Wolseley for processing, said company founder Kelly Penner.

The Manitoba cow-calf producer and business owner said he started pursuing a plant last February. He was thinking of a small-scale facility, killing 5,000-10,000 head each year for a niche market.

After he met the proponents of Natural Valley he "hasn't looked back since.

"We formed Natural Prairie Beef Inc. to represent Manitoba producers in the Natural Valley Farms program."

Penner requested proposals from several communities in western Manitoba that might be interested in the new facility. Neepawa produced the best offer and the business plan, including financing, is now being completed based on that location.

The plant will be built west of Springhill Hogs and employ 40 people.

"We're currently selling hooks (slaughter space) for Natural Valley Farms (in Manitoba)," Penner said.

He expects producers will participate when they realize they need to control their own destiny.

"Producers are raising animals for this program already," he said, referring to the fact that more feedlots than individual producers use implants, which are not part of the natural beef cycle. "They know it, and they should get a premium for it."

Penner said Natural Prairie Beef doesn't intend to compete with Rancher's Choice, the facility planned for Dauphin, Man.

He said Manitoba once had a vibrant slaughter and processing industry and some producers are skeptical they can get that back. He hopes to convince them otherwise at public meetings. One is planned for Jan. 12 in Neepawa
 
The ONE.......
ALL cases of BSE in North America have came from Canada,



THAT STATEMENT IS false. we had a case in the early 90 ,s from the U.K in Canada.


the ONE..If this animal ends up having BSE then imports should not be allowed from Canada PERIOD.

Even if it did, it would still prove we catching them, before they hit the food chain.
 

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