My heifer, only 14 months old delivered a big calf by c-section Sunday. The calf seemed healthy and nurses, but she doesnt have hardy any milk. It will not take a bottle. We have tubed it each day. The problem is, today, age 4 days, we saw the first meconium and it was bloody and the calf appears to have stomach pain. After we tube him especially, he gets shaky and stumbes and acts like his stomach hurts. The meconium he passed this evening had a bloody mucus. Any ideas.
bloody meconium
- Thread starter Evie
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Baxter -- coccidiosis has a 16-20 day incubation period. Not possible for a 4 day old calf to have it.
That first poop should be within 12 hours of birth if I remember right. Are you sure the calf hadn't pooped before that? The calves I've seen that didn't poop within 24 hours... died.
That first poop should be within 12 hours of birth if I remember right. Are you sure the calf hadn't pooped before that? The calves I've seen that didn't poop within 24 hours... died.
Thanks Baxter and Milkmaid for your responses. I think tomorrow I will call the vet again, he said earlier today he thought the lack of first poop was probably from lack of nourishment and to continue to tube him. That was before we saw the bloody poop this evening. I am not sure it was the first, but I the first I saw and I have been watching. Hopefully I can get a sample tomorrow to check. He sure seemed to hurt tonight when he passed it and then after his tubing he seemed to have pain---- then he gets up and runs and acts good, real inquisitive. Never saw a calf act like that.
You said he's nursing... and that you're tubing him too? I think since he's 4 days of age I'd just stop with the tubing if you see he'll nurse on his own. Keep an eye on him and if it looks like he needs to be turned into a bottle calf then separate them. Often times though, it's easy to underestimate just how much a cow produces. Got a ~700lb holstein 1st calf heifer in the milking herd that does pretty well although she is about half the size of all the others.
--just saw angie's post-- what are you tubing this calf with?
--just saw angie's post-- what are you tubing this calf with?
I'll let you all know what happens. In reference to the last post from MilkMaid, yes he is nursing and yes we are tubing him and he can't become a bottle baby yet as he refuses the bottle. We are hoping she starts producing more. You can tell he gets very little from her. When we had her in the chute for her post C-section antibiotic I milked her and got nearly nothing. If he would take the bottle, he would be a bottle calf without question
TexasBred
Well-known member
Are you feeding the cow grain? If not give her some...should increase milk production.
randiliana
Well-known member
If you know mama hasn't enough milk, and you are sure you want to get him on the bottle.....
There is a pretty simple way to get him on the bottle. For a young calf it works, heck, I have used it on a lot of month old calves, and it worked. Make him go hungry. Take him off mama, and quit tubing him. You cannot keep tubing him forever. If you are not using them find a lamb nipple, or a soft rubber one, they are more like what he is used to. Those big fat ones that come on most bottles and buckets work well, just not for these calves that are stubborn. He won't starve to death in 24 hours, so let him go hungry. Try to bottle him when you would normally feed him. Stand over his shoulders, facing forward, bend over him and stick the bottle in his mouth. Wiggle it around, squeeze milk into his mouth, pull it out and push it back in. He may not take it the first time you try, but keep working at it. Whatever you do, do not fill him up until he takes the bottle. A hungry calf is more likely to take a bottle.
Now, as for the bloody stool, if he is 4 days old, he should no longer be passing meconium. How much blood is he passing, a little bit may not be a cause for concern, as his system is adjusting to this new way of eating. Have you taken his temp? My first guess would have been coccidiosis, but if the incubation is at least 16 days, that is unlikely. The pain could be caused by the tubing, or the mixture of mama's milk, and milk replacer. Maybe mama DOES have enough milk, and you are over-filling him. Get her in and try milking her again. Just some more suggestions to think about.
There is a pretty simple way to get him on the bottle. For a young calf it works, heck, I have used it on a lot of month old calves, and it worked. Make him go hungry. Take him off mama, and quit tubing him. You cannot keep tubing him forever. If you are not using them find a lamb nipple, or a soft rubber one, they are more like what he is used to. Those big fat ones that come on most bottles and buckets work well, just not for these calves that are stubborn. He won't starve to death in 24 hours, so let him go hungry. Try to bottle him when you would normally feed him. Stand over his shoulders, facing forward, bend over him and stick the bottle in his mouth. Wiggle it around, squeeze milk into his mouth, pull it out and push it back in. He may not take it the first time you try, but keep working at it. Whatever you do, do not fill him up until he takes the bottle. A hungry calf is more likely to take a bottle.
Now, as for the bloody stool, if he is 4 days old, he should no longer be passing meconium. How much blood is he passing, a little bit may not be a cause for concern, as his system is adjusting to this new way of eating. Have you taken his temp? My first guess would have been coccidiosis, but if the incubation is at least 16 days, that is unlikely. The pain could be caused by the tubing, or the mixture of mama's milk, and milk replacer. Maybe mama DOES have enough milk, and you are over-filling him. Get her in and try milking her again. Just some more suggestions to think about.
Hi Randiliana: Thanks for your help. Yes, I have tried the lamb nipple. Didn't tube him this morning. He seemed pretty spry but real gant. Left him with mamma until I can get back out there . Might try separating them this afternoon. He did have another bloody BM when I was with him and it hurts him, he cries. Actualy tubing must hurt him or the milk in his belly. Real wierd, whenever you tube him, then he wobbles when he walks and last night even fell down. Sucks the cow continually but you can tell he isnt getting much. She's eating good, got prairie hay, brome and alfalfa. Vet is supposed to call back.
randiliana
Well-known member
hmmm, is he constipated? That could explain the problem. You might consider giving him some Kaopectate or Peptobismol. Even a bit of mineral oil might help settle things. Glad you've talked to the vet, hopefully he has some ideas.
larryshoat
Well-known member
The pain that he seems to have when tubed bothers me, plus the blood .I think this calf has a hard road ahead .When you say the calf is gant, that sounds to me like it is dehydrated .While you're trying to get it on the bottle I would give Lactated Ringers under the skin in the neck, just for hydration .
As someone mentioned kaopectate might help to heal the gut .In short I think the calf will scour if it is not already . The one encouraging thing is that it continues to suck the cow .
Larry
As someone mentioned kaopectate might help to heal the gut .In short I think the calf will scour if it is not already . The one encouraging thing is that it continues to suck the cow .
Larry
Well, today was a little better day. I did as you all said. Separated him and his momma this morning and left them for about 8 hours or so and then got him to take the bottle then turned him out with momma and it took him a few minutes to ring her out. Pushing feed to her and hoping. There was still a bloody BM there this evening though. The vet said yesterday that he didn't have coccidia infection. He acted like it might be possible, even at his young age, but that he didn't have it. He said "you don't have a normal calf". He didn't know why he had the blood. I guess I never mentionted it before, he is line breed-- happend when the momma was 5 months old. She is 14 months now. A daddy-daughter situation. The vet said anything could happen with this baby and the outcome might not be good. But, I have a lot better feeling about him this evening. About the Kaopectate, to heal the irritation of the gut, I am considering that if I find blood in the morning, but I dont know how much to give him and do you place it in with the milk replacer?
Kaopec won't heal or specifically soothe the gut... its purpose is to bind to toxins in the digestive tract. If you want something to soothe the intestinal wall, you'd need pepto-bismal or something similar. Not kaopectate. And yes, you can put it in the milk replacer, but I usually just fill up a 60cc syringe with the stuff (no needle), place it in the animal's mouth and squirt it in. Personal preference.
larryshoat
Well-known member
When I hear about the blood and the pain after being fed I think of Rota and Carona Virus in the process of stripping the gut out . I expected you to see scours by today, maybe I'm all off track on this, time will tell .
I think modern Kaopectate contains bismuth subsalicylate, not to be confused with Kaolin-Pectin.
Larry
I think modern Kaopectate contains bismuth subsalicylate, not to be confused with Kaolin-Pectin.
Larry
Double R Ranch
Well-known member
Maybe I am just confused but is this calf constipated? Normally we give pepto/Kaolin-Pectin for diahreah/ scours. If this calf if constipated wouldn't that make it worse? I guess I am just missing something. I would think that the tubing is unnessisary (sp) and doing more harm than good. If he was truly as hungry as you may think he would be more interested in the bottle. Keep in mind that he is a young calf and they don't eat a ton at a time.
We had a cow in the same situation that we purchased and she calved at 15 months. People line breed with no ill affects. Not saying problems don't accure from this but I don't think that this has anything to do with that. Is this your first bottle calf? I do agree with previous post about checking her milk production.
Will wait to hear from you.
Double R
We had a cow in the same situation that we purchased and she calved at 15 months. People line breed with no ill affects. Not saying problems don't accure from this but I don't think that this has anything to do with that. Is this your first bottle calf? I do agree with previous post about checking her milk production.
Will wait to hear from you.
Double R
baby calf takes the bottle fine now. Started last Saturday. He seems to really like the bottle now. He has never scoured. Sometimes I think he still hurts or something after the bottle, like when we tubed him. (vet say he tubed one for 6 weeks once as it wouldnt eat. He told me that was the only option if I didnt want him to die--- vet also thinks because he is line bred that he has problelms, Well, everyone I guess has an opinon and that's his) The calf will start to walk away after he finishes the bottle, not always, but a lot of the time, then get all rubbery in his legs and sometimes he even falls. Then in a minute or so, he is up going strong. He still sucks the cow a lot, but doesnt get much. Tried to push feed to her but doesn't seem to be helping her milk. Anyway, no scours, havent seen any blood for a few days. Ref rota virus you mentioned, I think the Calf Guard will cover that, hopefully. WE give it before they are 12 hours old. This weekend I will have more time to spend with him, hopefully. Thanks for your concern.
