50/50Farms
Well-known member
You mean CAD... certified American dog.
Black coyote
- Thread starter Ky hills
- Start date
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I have a 16 gauge Model 12 in my safe right now.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
Fine model a many a deer has fallen to one in my hands.
The sixteen is my favorite hands down, totes like a 20 and works them over like a 12.
Both the Winchester and Browning put 16's on a 20 gauge frame.
Remington was too lazy to scale the receiver to the gauge.
They just stuck a smaller pipe on it.
I don't remember why this photo was taken, both these are pretty rare.
Left Winchester Model 25 12 gauge four digit serial number only 80K made.
The right was Browning BPS Upland Special in 16 gauge. I have been offered insane money for that shotgun.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Here in the NE, we don't have any of the "original" type. When I moved here from Kansas, I couldn't believe how BIG our coyotes were. Everyone called them COYDOGS. Well, researchers started DNA testing them. They are all WOLF crosses. Some will go 80+ pounds. Kansas ones were more like 35-40#
Mine was my father's for as long as I could remember. It has been a go-to gun for over 60 years.
M.Magis
Well-known member
Thats somewhat of an internet story. Like most, it has a bit of truth but greatly exaggerated. Many Eastern coyotes have a small amount of wolf DNA in their genetic make up, but they aren't "wolf crosses". The wolf DNA originated hundreds of years ago. I've caught some 50 lb coyotes, but the vast majority still average 30-35 lbs.
OP
OP
Ky hills
Well-known member
Dave
Well-known member
One would want to be careful about shooting a black coyote here. We definitely have black wolves which are protected. In a quick look it might be mistaken for a big dark coyote but there are some differences if one looked at all. Not that anyone locally is against shooting a wolf. But you wouldn't want to do that out in the open along a road.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Like the report Ky Hills posted, I was quoting what our researchers here in the NE (NY) have discovered.
georgiabob
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Lots of black ones have been killed in georgia over the last ten years. I saw an urban coyote in Columbus ten years ago that was huge. Guy with pointed it out by saying "is that a deer". It wasn't deer size but it was german shepherd size. Lots of coydogs around here.
My understanding is that coyotes are a recent thing east of the Mississippi river.
simme
Old Dumb Guy
Coyotes here for about 35 years. 50 years ago, we did not see deer, wild turkeys, feral hogs, groundhogs, fire ants, or armadillos in this area. Now we have all those. Had lots of rabbits, squirrels, quail. Not so many of those now.
Lots more people now. They do more damage than all the new animals combined.
Travlr
Well-known member
I'd bet the fire ants have been a problem for the rabbits and quail.
50/50Farms
Well-known member
Hogs and coyotes destroy nests. Turkeys, quail, any ground nester. I saw a covey of quail the other day and was super surprised.
OP
OP
Ky hills
Well-known member
Never heard of coyotes here while growing up. Saw my first one in the early 90's. Thing was huge, I first thought it was a German Shepherd mixed dog, but realized fairly quick it was different acting than a dog.
After that their presence seemed to be ever present. For a while it seemed like foxes, rabbits, groundhogs etc got scarce, but now seems like they are more plentiful and yet the coyote population has exploded.
We see a range of sizes and color variations in coyotes. The smaller ones that we see we figure are young ones as they are often with or close by larger coyotes.
People used to say they were solitary animals, but over the last several years we have seen 2 or more together as much or more often then singles.
After that their presence seemed to be ever present. For a while it seemed like foxes, rabbits, groundhogs etc got scarce, but now seems like they are more plentiful and yet the coyote population has exploded.
We see a range of sizes and color variations in coyotes. The smaller ones that we see we figure are young ones as they are often with or close by larger coyotes.
People used to say they were solitary animals, but over the last several years we have seen 2 or more together as much or more often then singles.
Some fox hunting club brought the first ones to GA in the 40's. Somewhere down in south Ga. Fox hunting in the south is not the Tally-Ho on horses thing. It is where you get together in the woods, build a fire, and sit around all night listening to the hounds chase foxes. Idiots who think foxes, bobcats etc. " hurt the quail and rabbit populations" had decimated the fox population in some areas/ Well the coyotes took to GA like a duck does to water. Ironically, they about finished off the fox population in their areas. We have coyotes in the down town of big cities here in GA. Coyotes are here in huge numbers now. They have not hurt the deer and turkey population here at all. they will strengthen the population , as all predators always do sine the beginning of time. They do not hurt the quail or rabbit population either. I was a Fish & Wildlife biology major in college, and part of a study of the decline in quail poulations (this was in the mid 70's after cotton was almost gone and the whole state started planting beans). Idiots were shooting hawks, bobcats and what foxes were left on sight. The resuts of the study were ( as I had suspected it would be, just watching the way famers were doing their beans as compared to how they did cotton fields) that the biggest cause of the quail population decline was loss of habitat. 2nd biggest was predation by feral dogs and cats. and it stil is today. 47 years later.
50/50Farms
Well-known member
Agreed that feral cats are about the worst.
M.Magis
Well-known member
I just wanted to point out that they aren't actual "crosses" or "coywolves" in the way the internet likes to promote, more of a composite. They're still coyotes, just slightly bigger than western cousins.
Travlr
Well-known member
Beefmaster is a composite breed... and yet we know which breeds were used to develop the breed.
If a coyote has wolf or dog in it's background I guess you could call it a composite... but it still has wolf or dog and that's why they are bigger and/or look slightly different in the east.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Not according to the research scientist at Cornell Univ. "Supposedly" some really bad weather pushed the wolves around the top of Lake Michigan and mingled with the Eastern Coyote. The "new" coyotes that everyone thought was dog crossed, turned out to be WOLF cross,
Did you ignore the report Ky Hill posted - DNA tested : 64% coyote, 13% gray wolf, 13% eastern wolf, and 10% domestic dog. That's 1/4 wolf. This is NOT the DNA that would be because of "the beginning of dogs/coyotes". 26% IS a CROSS with wolves.
64% coyote would be considered a half blood in our industry.
