Bit info

[Jim62]

I had been using a full cheek snaffle bit on my 18 year old qh gelding, and he was not being as responsive as I thought he should be. Riding was something like herding a pig--weaving back and forth and he seemed to be sight-seeing instead of just going straight.

Switched to a medium port curb bit the other day to see if he would do better with that. He seemed to not like it right from the start. Did pretty good in the round pen, but after riding an hour or so, he got to throwing his head around and just generally not cooperating. Even thought about bucking one time-kind of a crow-hop move.

Would the bit change cause this kind of behavior? If so, would it be something that he just needs to get used to? Or, will a curb bit just not work for him? I'm getting pretty close to selling him, because it just ain't worth the fight. While he will do pretty much what I want him to do, it's a fight all the way, and sure takes the enjoyment out of riding.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

 

[spinandslide]

When was the last night you had his teeth done???

 

[Jim62]

It's been about a year or so. It had no noticeable effect on how he acted. Don't think that's the problem.

 

[codymccue]

I say yes to "Would the bit change cause this kind of behavior?"
I would move to a more"severe"snaffle if he isn't responding to the full cheek.When I take a horse from a rubber snaffle to a D-ring the amount of contact needed goes way down.
I'm no expert on what might work for others,but maybe try something like a twisted wire snaffle.it's still a snaffle bit like he's used to,but has more "bite" to it.
you'll wanna keep that in mind first time you use it...


on another note,do you ride with a fair bit of "contact" with his mouth?or none?has he always been this way or has it been a progression?lots of times folks build a hard mouthed horse over time without knowing it...an don't get me wrong,I'm not pointing any fingers...just askin questions,trying to get a better understanding. ;-)

 

[Jim62]

I always try to ride with a loose rein, but with his wandering instead of just going straight, he needs a lot of direction. I switched from the snaffle to the curb bit in hopes of getting a little better response out of him, but all I got was the head-tossing and acting antsy. I was wondering if he will get out of this as he gets more used to the curb bit? He does not neck-rein very well, but we've been working on that, and he seems to be getting a little better.

I never have totally understood when the different types of bits should be used. Seems that you start out with a snaffle and then move on to a curb bit?? Or is it just a matter of preference? Or just whatever works best?

I've had him for almost 3 years, and for the last few months, we've been making some real good progress, but the last few rides have been some real giant steps backwards. I hate to let him win, but he's wearing me down pretty fast. Every little thing I try just seems to turn into a battle of the wills.

Thanks for the help.

 

[msscamp]

I had been using a full cheek snaffle bit on my 18 year old qh gelding, and he was not being as responsive as I thought he should be. Riding was something like herding a pig--weaving back and forth and he seemed to be sight-seeing instead of just going straight.

Switched to a medium port curb bit the other day to see if he would do better with that. He seemed to not like it right from the start. Did pretty good in the round pen, but after riding an hour or so, he got to throwing his head around and just generally not cooperating. Even thought about bucking one time-kind of a crow-hop move.

Would the bit change cause this kind of behavior? If so, would it be something that he just needs to get used to? Or, will a curb bit just not work for him? I'm getting pretty close to selling him, because it just ain't worth the fight. While he will do pretty much what I want him to do, it's a fight all the way, and sure takes the enjoyment out of riding.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Going from a snaffle to a medium port curb is quite a change with regard to severity, and it could be responsible for his head tossing and crow-hopping. On the other hand - based on your description - it sounds like this horse could be a bit spoiled, and the crow-hopping could have been the result of a plain old temper fit due to his not having his way anymore. You might want to consider borrowing a low-port curb bit, an O or D-ring snaffle, or possibly even a Tom Thumb snaffle (not my favorite, but it just might do the trick for you) from a friend and trying those on him. Additionally, you might also want to consider doing some ground work (if you're not already doing it) with this horse to establish a working relationship, as well as reinforcing his respect for you.

 

[chippie]

It's been about a year or so. It had no noticeable effect on how he acted. Don't think that's the problem.

It's time to get his teeth checked anyway - especially since he is an aged horse.

Good luck with him.

 

[HAY MAKER]

Jim62,I think you are right on the money with your bit choice,I start a colt with a full cheek snaffle,then go to a low port curb,then a medium port curb,this takes time,every horse is differnt,when I am satisfied with the way a horse works,I go back to the snaffle,when the snaffle dont work,he gets a tune up with the curb,then back to the snaffle.................sounds like your horse has you figgered out,bout time to unspoil him.
good luck

 

[spinandslide]

I always try to ride with a loose rein, but with his wandering instead of just going straight, he needs a lot of direction. I switched from the snaffle to the curb bit in hopes of getting a little better response out of him, but all I got was the head-tossing and acting antsy. I was wondering if he will get out of this as he gets more used to the curb bit? He does not neck-rein very well, but we've been working on that, and he seems to be getting a little better.

I never have totally understood when the different types of bits should be used. Seems that you start out with a snaffle and then move on to a curb bit?? Or is it just a matter of preference? Or just whatever works best?

I've had him for almost 3 years, and for the last few months, we've been making some real good progress, but the last few rides have been some real giant steps backwards. I hate to let him win, but he's wearing me down pretty fast. Every little thing I try just seems to turn into a battle of the wills.

Thanks for the help.

You usually move the horse onto a curb when he's got the basics of what being a broke horse is...your horse doesnt have those basics or hes pretending he doesnt because hes got you figured out.

Id get his teeth checked again(once a year at least for young and aged horses) and then put him in a snaffle that has abit more bite, like one with a twisted mouthpiece. Get the larger twist at first, I cant remember the size off the top of my head..dont go right into the teeny wire though. I say a snaffle as a snaffle is used as a schooling tool, even on my finished reiners, I will put them in a snaffle if I need to correct something. You can "pull" a horse around in a snaffle and not scare or upset him..a curb you usually cant do that.

His weaving isnt bit related..its related to the fact Im thinking hes been doing it for quite some time and you just havent started to notice it til now.

Horses are funny critters, they start off real mild like in their "pushing" and sometimes, we as riders either ignore it because it seems "teeny" or we arent far enough in horsemanship to feel them push their shoulder out or veer a pinch to the right in a run down to a stop. Gradualy, the horse becomes lazier and lazier and then one day we get on and we FEEL the horse doing this, because hes been allowed to get away with it and its become worse and worse. For example, your horse takes one step when you mount up, then stops, on his own..you think "eh, its one step, no biggie" and go ride...next day he takes a step and a half..again, no big deal, you let it go..by the 4th or 5th week, the horse is trotting off as soon as he feels you put your foot in the stirrup and you are going "What the heck, this came out of no where!" But it didnt! He'd been doing it the last 5 weeks, you just didnt "nip it in the bud".

For his veering, this is what I would do.

In the most basic form, I would pick a "point" and ride directly to it. Pick up contact with your horses mouth and make sure he he is "up" in the bridle and between your legs. Ride two handed, if you feel him start to veer, bring him back, dont fight, just correct and go on, keep focused on that point. He you feel him start to wander mentaly, I would pick up my reins and bump him forward with my legs, not into a trot, this pushes him up into the bridle.

I dont know if they has confused you or not..

Some other exercises I would do, work on him "giving" you all parts of his body, his shoulders, his ribcage and his haunches. This allows you to "loosen" the horse up, get his attention on you and it allows you to reposition that part of his body, should he fall out of line(for example, I ask my mare to change leads and she lags. I can stop her and move her haunches around, as haunches are the basis of a lead change, to help free up her hind to allow her to perform a better, more effortless change)

Also, getting him to move up into the bridle. Your hands set the boundry, your legs are the gas. You want that horse soft in the bridle. What you do is pickup contact onyour horse's face, and use your legs to drive him up, he shouldnt trot off, as you hands should be stationary boundry and he cant go past them. keep asking him to move forward, while setting the boundry. When you take your legs off, he should either stop or move backwards..depending on how you want him trained. Mine go back when I take my leg off, but maintain the contact with their mouth.

All this is TERRIABLY hard to explain via internet, but I hope you got something from this long post. Good luck and if you need further explainations, Ill do my best!

 

[Jim62]

Thanks for the info and suggestions. One thing that entered my mind well after the fact was that maybe he was just telling me it was too hot to be riding. And the bit situation had little to do with it. It would make me kind of grumpy, too, if someone made me get out and work in this heat.

 

[spinandslide]

Thanks for the info and suggestions. One thing that entered my mind well after the fact was that maybe he was just telling me it was too hot to be riding. And the bit situation had little to do with it. It would make me kind of grumpy, too, if someone made me get out and work in this heat.

Jim, with all due respect, its not the horse's choice weather he should work in the heat or not...dont excuse his behavior..please! So many people do and it creates a spoiled monster horse. I agree riding in heat is uncomfortable..I dont like it, but I have done it and my horses dont throw their heads or act rotten, they do what is asked of them.

Take it or leave it for whats its worth..

 

[warpaint]

I always try to ride with a loose rein, but with his wandering instead of just going straight, he needs a lot of direction. I switched from the snaffle to the curb bit in hopes of getting a little better response out of him, but all I got was the head-tossing and acting antsy. I was wondering if he will get out of this as he gets more used to the curb bit? He does not neck-rein very well, but we've been working on that, and he seems to be getting a little better.

I never have totally understood when the different types of bits should be used. Seems that you start out with a snaffle and then move on to a curb bit?? Or is it just a matter of preference? Or just whatever works best?

I've had him for almost 3 years, and for the last few months, we've been making some real good progress, but the last few rides have been some real giant steps backwards. I hate to let him win, but he's wearing me down pretty fast. Every little thing I try just seems to turn into a battle of the wills.

Thanks for the help.

You usually move the horse onto a curb when he's got the basics of what being a broke horse is...your horse doesnt have those basics or hes pretending he doesnt because hes got you figured out.

Id get his teeth checked again(once a year at least for young and aged horses) and then put him in a snaffle that has abit more bite, like one with a twisted mouthpiece. Get the larger twist at first, I cant remember the size off the top of my head..dont go right into the teeny wire though. I say a snaffle as a snaffle is used as a schooling tool, even on my finished reiners, I will put them in a snaffle if I need to correct something. You can "pull" a horse around in a snaffle and not scare or upset him..a curb you usually cant do that.

His weaving isnt bit related..its related to the fact Im thinking hes been doing it for quite some time and you just havent started to notice it til now.

Horses are funny critters, they start off real mild like in their "pushing" and sometimes, we as riders either ignore it because it seems "teeny" or we arent far enough in horsemanship to feel them push their shoulder out or veer a pinch to the right in a run down to a stop. Gradualy, the horse becomes lazier and lazier and then one day we get on and we FEEL the horse doing this, because hes been allowed to get away with it and its become worse and worse. For example, your horse takes one step when you mount up, then stops, on his own..you think "eh, its one step, no biggie" and go ride...next day he takes a step and a half..again, no big deal, you let it go..by the 4th or 5th week, the horse is trotting off as soon as he feels you put your foot in the stirrup and you are going "What the heck, this came out of no where!" But it didnt! He'd been doing it the last 5 weeks, you just didnt "nip it in the bud".

For his veering, this is what I would do.

In the most basic form, I would pick a "point" and ride directly to it. Pick up contact with your horses mouth and make sure he he is "up" in the bridle and between your legs. Ride two handed, if you feel him start to veer, bring him back, dont fight, just correct and go on, keep focused on that point. He you feel him start to wander mentaly, I would pick up my reins and bump him forward with my legs, not into a trot, this pushes him up into the bridle.

I dont know if they has confused you or not..

Some other exercises I would do, work on him "giving" you all parts of his body, his shoulders, his ribcage and his haunches. This allows you to "loosen" the horse up, get his attention on you and it allows you to reposition that part of his body, should he fall out of line(for example, I ask my mare to change leads and she lags. I can stop her and move her haunches around, as haunches are the basis of a lead change, to help free up her hind to allow her to perform a better, more effortless change)

Also, getting him to move up into the bridle. Your hands set the boundry, your legs are the gas. You want that horse soft in the bridle. What you do is pickup contact onyour horse's face, and use your legs to drive him up, he shouldnt trot off, as you hands should be stationary boundry and he cant go past them. keep asking him to move forward, while setting the boundry. When you take your legs off, he should either stop or move backwards..depending on how you want him trained. Mine go back when I take my leg off, but maintain the contact with their mouth.

All this is TERRIABLY hard to explain via internet, but I hope you got something from this long post. Good luck and if you need further explainations, Ill do my best!

Excellent response.

I personally use a Tom Thumb on any horse that I've not had experience with. It teaches them my habits as a rider, and lets them know what I expect from them.

 

[msscamp]

One thing that entered my mind well after the fact was that maybe he was just telling me it was too hot to be riding.

This is not a call that your horse gets to make, his job is to perform whenever you decide to ride him - regardless of the weather.

 

[hayray]

You switched from a direct pressure -snaffle bit that the horse most likely is leaning on to a leverage curb bit that has more down ward pressure on the bars so you are seeing different resistances with the different mouth pieces. The main problem is that the horse is not trained to yield to the bits and go forward correctly no matter what type of bit you use so changing bits rarely works in this case.